Avatar 2: The Way of Water

[sifth]

36 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I counted the days from the moment that film was announced until the premiere. I saw it opening weekend. I was so disappointed I couldn't even process how disappointed I was. The film didn't exactly suck, it just didn't come close to my expectations for it. And it isn't even on the same planet as the first two films.

Demystifying the engineers was a bad idea IMO. The characterizations were terrible (something Scott nailed in Alien).

 

Don't forget the horrible old man makeup, lol

 

[Argonath Diver]

I am/was probably the biggest 3D fanboy I know. A 3D projector (and accompanying 116" screen) are among my all time favorite purchases. Animated 3D stuff always looks the best - that or underwater documentaries with big colorful fish floating around your living room. I've mostly moved beyond that fascination, as only a handful of movies truly look better in 3D to me (Avatar, Tintin, Battle Angel Alita and Into the Spiderverse).

I had a blast 'watching' Avatar on it a couple years ago, only with nice ambient music playing while the movie was muted. I just fast forwarded through anything but the jungle exploring or flying scenes, and it was a heck of a fun time. Just some wonderful 3D lush jungle flora and fauna set to Banco de Gaia. The movie is really corny - and as stated how the hell do you screw up Sigourney Weaver having a role? I felt some of her characters' sarcasm and bitterness was the actor channeling her own frustration with such a silly script. 

I'll absolutely see this sequel. I watch movies at about a 12 year old's level, though, and I'll be Ooh'ing and Aah'ing at 3D alien dolphins the whole time, regardless of how inane the plot likely will be. Also, it features Oona Chaplin, whom I had a crush on from the show and then met at a dinner party and later sang karaoke with on magical night in New York. She's awesome and I'll bet she'll be confusingly attractive as a blue (or purple maybe?) 10 foot tall alien.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Argonath Diver

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

31 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

The movie is really corny - and as stated how the hell do you screw up Sigourney Weaver having a role? I felt some of her characters' sarcasm and bitterness was the actor channeling her own frustration with such a silly script. 

The directors cut features her in several scenes that fill in her backstory on Pandora.

Spoiler

 

 

[Werthead]

12 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

That's not saying much. Talk about a film being treated with kid gloves...

I counted the days from the moment that film was announced until the premiere. I saw it opening weekend. I was so disappointed I couldn't even process how disappointed I was. The film didn't exactly suck, it just didn't come close to my expectations for it. And it isn't even on the same planet as the first two films.

Demystifying the engineers was a bad idea IMO. The characterizations were terrible (something Scott nailed in Alien).

I think Alien also had very dumb characters, but it seemed to work because they weren't dedicated scientists or engineers. They were basically truck drivers and they had no formal training with the situation they were put in, so it was marginally more credible (even if Kane was still a bit dumb to put his face right into a mysterious organic egg-shaped thing he'd just found).

Prometheus had specially-trained scientists, first contact people and engineers behaving like 8-year-old kids, which was really atrociously stupid.

I think it's even more heightened because Cameron, at his best, is a remorselessly logical writer who often asks the questions the audience is asking. Aliens is a notably non-stupid film where the characters are usually plausibly outwitted or overtaken by events rather than getting themselves into dangerous situations through sheer stupidity (Carter Burke's escapades excepted, but that's kind of the point).

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

8 hours ago, Werthead said:

I think Alien also had very dumb characters, but it seemed to work because they weren't dedicated scientists or engineers. They were basically truck drivers and they had no formal training with the situation they were put in, so it was marginally more credible (even if Kane was still a bit dumb to put his face right into a mysterious organic egg-shaped thing he'd just found).

But that egg was so wet.

Not stupid exactly, just out of their depth. Not to mention that the situation was being manipulated by the science officer; who they no reason not to trust. But yeah, the characters had an incredible depth given the lack of exposition and they behaved more or less how one would expect. Their personalities had a sense to authenticity.

Many real-world industrial incidents involve an. "oh, it'll be fine" attitude that, in hindsight, seems totally insane. Check out some of the USCSB safety videos on youtube. Kane was always the most adventurous of the group and his curiosity got the best of him. Nothing in his experience would have prepared him for a hideous space crab that could instantly melt through his helmet.

8 hours ago, Werthead said:

Prometheus had specially-trained scientists, first contact people and engineers behaving like 8-year-old kids, which was really atrociously stupid.

Not just stupid but out of character. Weiland's TED talk does not sound like a TED talk (that should have been the first clue). Shaw's presentation to the group does not sound like a scientist talking to other scientists. Why does the geologist behave like a super badass assassin? Why does Holloway, an archeologist, have no interest in this alien world? Because he doesn't get to talk to one of these hypothetical engineers? He just made one of the most important discoveries in the history of science. His ancient aliens malarkey was just proven to be true! The Engineer's structure alone would be worth a lifetime of research.  He's on an alien world full of wonders waiting to be discovered and he just doesn't care.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Corvinus85]

The geologist with the mapping drones who then got lost in the mapped tunnels takes the cake for me. A close second is the xenobiologist who has no idea how to approach a newly discovered lifeform.

But on top of the stupidly written characters, Prometheus also has poor editing. Major scenes are jumbled together and you can tell a lot was left on the cutting board. I specifically hated that part where the zombie geologist returns to the ship and you have that entire fight scene with the crew at the same time as Shaw's self C-section.

[Myrddin]

The core premise of Prometheus always intrigued me: A god passing fire (power/life) to the next generation of gods and the blow back. The Engineer's response to the android was perfect. It was an abomination, a doll created by his own creation, not an equal. Weyland thought he was an equal to this being, but the Engineer saw no equals, only children playing in the mud. 

The execution was certainly subpar, made worse to turn it in to an Alien film.

And Covenant was worse, even though they started with all the right pieces: David and Shaw.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

19 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

The core premise of Prometheus always intrigued me: A god passing fire (power/life) to the next generation of gods and the blow back.

When you put it that way it sounds amazing. But I'm sorry, the "chariots of the gods", ancient aliens stuff is just played out to me. and it was when the film came out. 

 

31 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

The geologist with the mapping drones who then got lost in the mapped tunnels takes the cake for me. A close second is the xenobiologist who has no idea how to approach a newly discovered lifeform.

But on top of the stupidly written characters, Prometheus also has poor editing. Major scenes are jumbled together and you can tell a lot was left on the cutting board. I specifically hated that part where the zombie geologist returns to the ship and you have that entire fight scene with the crew at the same time as Shaw's self C-section.

OTOH, there are some good performances. Elba and Theron earn their moneys and Fassbender stands out as David. Everyone else is still pretty good when they aren't talking nonsense mouth words. 

[sifth]

I rewatched Prometheus with some friends this past October. I believe it was the first time I've seen the film since it was in the movie theater.  The film was horrible and we spent the entire night basically mocking it. From the guys mapping the cave getting lost in the cave, to the two lead characters running from a giant donut shaped ship in a straight line. Heck even the main characters taking off their helmets in an alien ship was beyond stupid; David makes sense, but the human characters are beyond stupid for doing that.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

73% on the tomato-meter BTW...

[sifth]

7 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

73% on the tomato-meter BTW...

You ever watch the film Tangerine. The entire movie might be one of the worst films I've seen in my life and it was all filmed on some yoyo's smart phone and yet it has a 96 on RT. I just don't trust that website these days.

[Werthead]

47 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

73% on the tomato-meter BTW...

It also made pretty serious bank for what was effectively a horror movie. The production design was outstanding and the cast was stacked, and Scott knows how to do atmosphere.

That doesn't take away the fact that it was a very stupid film.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

It also made pretty serious bank for what was effectively a horror movie. The production design was outstanding and the cast was stacked, and Scott knows how to do atmosphere.

"Ridley Scott" and "alien prequel" probably had a lot to do with that. If I recall correctly, part of the BTS marketing for the film was "Scott returning to Sci Fi after all these years". And no doubt, the craft was outstanding. It probably has one of the coolest trailers I've ever seen. 

[polishgenius]

6 hours ago, sifth said:

You ever watch the film Tangerine. The entire movie might be one of the worst films I've seen in my life and it was all filmed on some yoyo's smart phone and yet it has a 96 on RT. I just don't trust that website these days.

 

I've not seen Tangerine but his follow-up Florida Project is outstandingly good so thanks for reminding me I need to try Tangerine. 

Also his latest film at some point.

[Heartofice]

I enjoyed Prometheus first time I saw it, wasn’t really thinking too hard while it was on, and it wasn’t till I got out and saw the reviews that I clocked all the most egregiously stupid stuff.

I quite liked it first time round, but I also think I was giving it the benefit of the doubt based on the hope that the second movie would sort out all the narrative issues. If it was part one to a brilliant part two that would fix everything.

Then Covenant came out and it was nothing more than a shameless retread of Alien, but much much worse. At which point Prometheus was exposed as quite a bad movie.

[sifth]

8 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

"Ridley Scott" and "alien prequel" probably had a lot to do with that. If I recall correctly, part of the BTS marketing for the film was "Scott returning to Sci Fi after all these years". And no doubt, the craft was outstanding. It probably has one of the coolest trailers I've ever seen. 

Yea, if nothing else the trailer for the film was amazing.

[polishgenius]

It's just sad that Ridley Scott, even if under studio pressure, couldn't even make a better Alien retread than the fucking Doom movie was.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

12 hours ago, polishgenius said:

It's just sad that Ridley Scott, even if under studio pressure, couldn't even make a better Alien retread than the fucking Doom movie was.

Oof. Thats harsh.

[Kalbear]

I think @Werthead really hit the nail on the head with what makes Aliens so amazing. It shares this with the Thing as well - a number of very competent people are put into a situation where they do largely smart, heroic things and they are still 100% fucked. Ripley not being listened to and Burke being a douche sucks, but most everyone is making fairly good decisions.

Prometheus by comparison requires some of the dumbest fucking things to be done in order for anything to happen.

[Calibandar]

Prometheus is really getting slammed here, I quite enjoyed that 

Fassbenders character David in these films is excellent.