Avatar 2: The Way of Water

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

10 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I finally went to see it last night with three friends. Perhaps it was the lower expectations, but I thought it was much better than the first film. It is still far from earning a place into the all-time great film catalogue and I also cannot imagine rewatching it outside of a fully equipped 3-D theatre, but overall it was definitely an improvement.

Visually, it was even more stunning than the first film. The acting was better, since it had less Sam Worthington in it and I mostly thought the plot was handled well. It's still by-the-numbers and the dialogue is often cringeworthy, but still I would deem it a step up from the first film.

Part of me wonders whether the positive change in reception has more to do with my own growth since the last film rather than any "real" improvements (outside of less Samn Worthington) Cameron made to the franchise. The message is far from subtle, but I have myself become much more emotionally aware of the catastrophic loss in biodiversity and the negative impact we overall have on the environment (instead of merely being intellectually aware of it like 10 years ago). There were a lot of scenes with the Tulkun in particular that struck an emotional cord that I was not expecting an Avatar film to find.

Not sure whether anyone else felt that way?

I do wonder about the future of the franchise. Out of the three of us that went, one disliked it and has already indicated he won't see Avatar 3. The other person aside from me is still interested in the second sequel, but he want to see it without 3-D (which is weird imo). I am definitely keen for a third one however and I hope Cameron will finally go for some more inspired storytelling here.

 

It gets better on rewatches. Seeing it in 2D isn't all that great. 

[IlyaP]

10 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

It gets better on rewatches. Seeing it in 2D isn't all that great. 

Hey hey hey hey! I saw it in 2D and it was perfectly watchable! You leave my eyeballs alone!

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 minute ago, IlyaP said:

Hey hey hey hey! I saw it in 2D and it was perfectly watchable! You leave my eyeballs alone!

There were a few shots scattered throughout the film where you could "see" that they were converted from 3D to 2D. some of the underwater scenes in particular. It was OK overall but I thought it was a bit jarring. I hope they improve it for the home release. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On 1/13/2023 at 4:48 AM, Veltigar said:

Part of me wonders whether the positive change in reception has more to do with my own growth since the last film rather than any "real" improvements (outside of less Samn Worthington) Cameron made to the franchise. The message is far from subtle, but I have myself become much more emotionally aware of the catastrophic loss in biodiversity and the negative impact we overall have on the environment (instead of merely being intellectually aware of it like 10 years ago). There were a lot of scenes with the Tulkun in particular that struck an emotional cord that I was not expecting an Avatar film to find.

Not sure whether anyone else felt that way?

I never responded to this part before...

But yes, I definitely had that feeling. There are a lot of emotional moments in the film; both at a character/story level and in terms of the broader environmental themes. The opening scene where the humans return was pretty devastating. I previously commented on a particular Tulkun scene, which I'll say again, was just fucking evil. There's also some obvious Vietnam War stuff as well. Tangentially, it's amazing what JC can pass as PG-13.

-

Some boring box office stuff: 

The-numbers lists the worldwide box office at 1.9 billion.

Avatar 2 is within spitting distance of topping Avengers: Infinity War's international box office. Pretty remarkable after 4.5 weeks. Worldwide: Spider-Man: FFH, Infinity War, and Star Wars: TFW will be toppled in the next week or two. 

Its domestic legs are pretty good but not quite as good as I expected. $650-$750 mil domestic seems locked in at this point. Beyond that is a stretch. 

Not bad for a sequel no one asked for, in a dormant franchise with no cultural footprint. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[BigFatCoward]

@Deadlines? What Deadlines? any idea of its likely final total? I'm guessing it will be well short of the first film, but might it make 2.5 billion? 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

9 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

@Deadlines? What Deadlines? any idea of its likely final total? I'm guessing it will be well short of the first film, but might it make 2.5 billion? 

$2.5 Billion would be a fair guess. It's difficult to say because its all about legs at this point; and international legs at that. I just don't have a good sense on how its trending in most places.

ETA: Domestically, It's still up almost $50 million on Top Gun Maverick. It's also up on the first Avatar but that gap appears to be closing. Who knows?

Edited January 16, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Mexal]

My wife and I watched Avatar on Saturday, which was fine and then saw Avatar 2 this morning and we both really liked it. Maybe it's because we're recent parents but the family shit hit us. Visually stunning as we expected with about 90 minutes of James Cameron underwater porn but I was never really bored of it. Glad I saw it in the theater, just a really fun experience.

Also, Stephen Lang plays such an excellent hateable villain. I wanted him to die in the most horrible ways.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

5 hours ago, Mexal said:

My wife and I watched Avatar on Saturday, which was fine and then saw Avatar 2 this morning and we both really liked it. Maybe it's because we're recent parents but the family shit hit us. Visually stunning as we expected with about 90 minutes of James Cameron underwater porn but I was never really bored of it. Glad I saw it in the theater, just a really fun experience.

Also, Stephen Lang plays such an excellent hateable villain. I wanted him to die in the most horrible ways.

Great villain. I suspect:

Quote

Quaritch-prime will have his "Smedly Butler with a vengeance" moment. His affection for Spider might be the catalyst, but now that his life has effectively bee commoditized, at what point does he realize that he's got more in common with the Na'vi and the humans just sees him as a piece of property?

Watching the final battle, it appears that some of the Recoms were merely injured, not killed. How's Quaritch going to feel if his brothers and sisters in-arms get put down because they'd be too expensive to nurse back to heath?

 

[Veltigar]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:03 AM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I never responded to this part before...

It's okay, you're here now @Deadlines? What Deadlines? 

On 1/16/2023 at 8:03 AM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

But yes, I definitely had that feeling. There are a lot of emotional moments in the film; both at a character/story level and in terms of the broader environmental themes. The opening scene where the humans return was pretty devastating. I previously commented on a particular Tulkun scene, which I'll say again, was just fucking evil. There's also some obvious Vietnam War stuff as well. Tangentially, it's amazing what JC can pass as PG-13.

Yeah, the opening scene was great stuff. I felt like I was a character in that Mitchell and Webb sketch where they ask themselves the question "Are we the baddies?"

Nice to see that I was not alone in feeling an enhanced emotional connection. I hope more people had the same feeling. It's not enough to save our planet, but it might be a good place to start.

19 hours ago, Mexal said:

Also, Stephen Lang plays such an excellent hateable villain. I wanted him to die in the most horrible ways.

That was one of the few things I thought the first Avatar did better actually

Spoiler

I liked the twist of bringing him back, but I found him and his team to be so ineffectual that I'm not quite sure whether it was the right idea. Perhaps they should have brought fewer marines back as avatars, because I did feel like Jake and Co. tore through them like wet paper bags.

Even if they did manage to make them a little more intimidating, I think one final weakness compared to Lang's first character is the character design. His aged action man look with the three scars was just a damn cool design. I missed that in the Na'Vi version of his character.

Quote

Quaritch-prime will have his "Smedly Butler with a vengeance" moment. His affection for Spider might be the catalyst, but now that his life has effectively bee commoditized, at what point does he realize that he's got more in common with the Na'vi and the humans just sees him as a piece of property?

Watching the final battle, it appears that some of the Recoms were merely injured, not killed. How's Quaritch going to feel if his brothers and sisters in-arms get put down because they'd be too expensive to nurse back to heath?

Is this based on something?

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

Is this based on something?

Damascene conversion? My own speculation I guess.

Maj. General Smedly Butler was an interesting character.

ETA:

Can we take a moment to acknowledge:

Spoiler

That James Cameron managed to get a nipple in a PG-13 movie. Slightly out of focus? Yes. Alien? sure. Nevertheless, I sat in that theater with my five young nieces as we all gazed at Sigourney Weaver-atar's pale blue tittie. 

Breathtaking.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fl9vKKPaMAAdfXV?format=jpg&name=medium

[Veltigar]

2 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fl9vKKPaMAAdfXV?format=jpg&name=medium

Top Gun 2 remains the superior film though, even if it is surpassed in b-o. 

15 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Damascene conversion? My own speculation I guess.

Maj. General Smedly Butler was an interesting character.

Oh, he's definitely going to go over to the good guys. They can't have him lose every film. He's already done as a credible threat in my opinion and having him go native is also the most cliché way to go, so that's what Cameron's MO is for the story of these films.

I'm going to look up Butler, he does look interesting.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

7 hours ago, Veltigar said:

Top Gun 2 remains the superior film though, even if it is surpassed in b-o. 

Oh, he's definitely going to go over to the good guys. They can't have him lose every film. He's already done as a credible threat in my opinion and having him go native is also the most cliché way to go, so that's what Cameron's MO is for the story of these films.

I'm going to look up Butler, he does look interesting.

He's kind of half way there already. Not just in therms of his physical form. The values and virtues of a marine are much closer to those of the Na'Vi than the human society depicted in the film. and it goes without saying that he can't go back to earth. 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[IlyaP]

It's almost at the 2 billion dollar mark. 

https://variety.com/2023/film/box-office/avatar-the-way-of-water-sixth-highest-grossing-film-1235490031/

[IlyaP]

I still just can't fathom that. Two billion dollars in ticket sales. I wonder how many tickets that translates to being sold across the world?

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

15 hours ago, IlyaP said:

I still just can't fathom that. Two billion dollars in ticket sales. I wonder how many tickets that translates to being sold across the world?

More importantly, it has legs similar to Top Gun Maverick. At this point in its theatrical run, TG:M would add another $400-$500 million world wide by the end. Who knows where Avatar 2 will land. 

This is for a film that, in the past months, some people were legit saying was going to fail. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Corvinus85]

3 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

More importantly, it has legs similar to Top Gun Maverick. At this point in its theatrical run, TG:M would add another $400-$500 million world wide by the end. Who knows where Avatar 2 will land. 

This is for a film that, in the past months, some people were legit saying was going to fail. 

And since Avatar 3 is only coming out in '24, there will likely be re-release sometime before that, because Avatar 1 got what? 2-3 re-releases, so it will add to the tally.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

18 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

And since Avatar 3 is only coming out in '24, there will likely be re-release sometime before that, because Avatar 1 got what? 2-3 re-releases, so it will add to the tally.

If it follows the same scheme as the first film, we'll get a directors cut in theaters this summer. Guaranteed Avatar 2 hits theaters again in November 2024. 

But yeah, the various re-releases of Avatar have added almost $200 million since it finished its run back in 2010. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Veltigar]

I do wonder what happens when you correct for both costs and for the elevated ticket prizes. When I paid my tickets for Avatar I did have to look twice before I believed just how much more the tickets cost compared to TG:M in IMAX. Especially because Avatar probably has far more people choosing the most expensive option to view the film.

That is probably offset by how much it cost to make these films though. Where does it stand profitwise v. its revenues.

On 1/18/2023 at 7:28 PM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

He's kind of half way there already. Not just in therms of his physical form. The values and virtues of a marine are much closer to those of the Na'Vi than the human society depicted in the film. and it goes without saying that he can't go back to earth. 

 

Hey, marines don't die, they just go to hell to regroup. Which is kind of what earth in the Avatar universe is nowadays  

[ithanos]

Rogue theory. We got Unobtainium in the first movie. Amrita in The Way of Water. I'm predicting, in the next installment, a new Na'vi tribe will offer some other mystery of Eywa for the RDA to salivate over. Prolly some shining substance that rhymes with Mythrall. I see what he's up to. Cameron is setting up his own Infinity Saga with a clutch of magical elements. Assembling the five lions of Voltron so when Voltron Aywa draws back with that blazing sword she can pass final judgement on mankind and his greedy ways.