Avatar 2: The Way of Water

[polishgenius]

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You fool! They literally talk about how it's been awhile since someone had the balls to do that. 

 

I suppose they never make clear how the previous riders did it, but the point I'm making ultimately is that the feat as shown is of almost no difficulty whatsoever and they should be able to do it all the time. The damn thing can't even look up! It didn't take balls, just cleverness... except it wasn't clever and not doing it made the Na'vi look dumb.

Edited May 9, 2022 by polishgenius

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

27 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 I also just found it aggressively stupid. Like how in all their history none of the Na'vi had ever thought to jump onto the big predator thing from above. Also a big deal was made of the incredible bond between rider and animal once they join, and then Jake abandons his for the new model without a word. Or how the big plan at the end was to let the bomber get so close to the tree that destroying it risked destroying the tree anyway, and also a bunch of forest-dwellers in their own forest decided the best way to face a vastly-better-armed force was to run at them in a straight line. 

How many Lucayan Indians would be roaming the earth today if their ancestors got it in their heads to butcher Columbus and his men the moment they hit the beach? How many hundreds of thousands of young men lost their lives in WW1 because their commanders said, "Machine guns? Harrumf! Just run at them. Bravery will carry the day!" They fought for years before it occurred to them to use the "creeping barrage", which seems pretty obvious in hindsight. "Aggressively stupid" is what defines many important moments in human history. 

Jake is human. Maybe it occurs to him to two-time his beastie when it wouldn't occur to most Na'avi. And yea, there was a guy before him.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

28 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

I suppose they never make clear how the previous riders did it, but the point I'm making ultimately is that the feat as shown is of almost no difficulty whatsoever and they should be able to do it all the time. The damn thing can't even look up! It didn't take balls, just cleverness... except it wasn't clever and not doing it made the Na'vi look dumb.

I'm just giving you shit. The plot of the movie both at the macro and micro level is weak. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

Apparently the big thing this time (and one of the reasons the movie took so long to make) is that all the underwater scenes are based on real underwater motion capture. Which has never happened before, Cameron's people invented the tech that made it possible. Now whether this will translate into underwater scenes that look nothing like anything we've seen before I can't say. But the hope would be that it does; because otherwise, what was the point?

He also shot 2 and 3 back to back. Avatar 3 is currently in post production and comes out next year.  And I guess he spent a few years mapping out the complete saga. He was also writer/producer on Alita: Battle Angel. Plus a bunch of other stuff. 

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I also just found it aggressively stupid. Like how in all their history none of the Na'vi had ever thought to jump onto the big predator thing from above. Also a big deal was made of the incredible bond between rider and animal once they join, and then Jake abandons his for the new model without a word. Or how the big plan at the end was to let the bomber get so close to the tree that destroying it risked destroying the tree anyway, and also a bunch of forest-dwellers in their own forest decided the best way to face a vastly-better-armed force was to run at them in a straight line. 
 

It's been a while, but I remember that the place with the tree created some weird interference that fucked with the humans' sensors, so it really was the only place where they could hope to successfully ambush an enemy with superior firepower.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Watching the exteneded directors cut of Avatar now. What an amazing film. I don't know what you guys are dumping on Sam Worthington. He gives a fine performance. 

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm just giving you shit. The plot of the movie both at the macro and micro level is weak. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. 

 

Yeah I mean, like I say, I enjoy other similarly stupid movies, many of them involving Vin Diesel. I don't know exactly what it was about Avatar that made it harder to forgive the dumbness, but it did. 

 

Maybe it's Vin Diesel's evident superiority over Sam Worthington as an actor. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

Yeah I mean, like I say, I enjoy other similarly stupid movies, many of them involving Vin Diesel. I don't know exactly what it was about Avatar that made it harder to forgive the dumbness, but it did. 

 

Maybe it's Vin Diesel's evident superiority over Sam Worthington as an actor. 

Maybe you're only meant to live your life a quarter mile at a time, not flying through trees on space pterodactyls. 

[Heartofice]

7 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Except this is the only one where main character is a total cypher. The thing that's special about him is that there is nothing special about him. It's not like he's going to Pandora to teach the Nav'i how to farm or something.

My reaction that is… ‘So what?’

Adding a gimmick to a worn out trope doesn’t mean you aren’t using that trope, and it isn’t subverting it at all, it’s a full blooded carbon copy of the going native trope.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

45 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

My reaction that is… ‘So what?’

Adding a gimmick to a worn out trope doesn’t mean you aren’t using that trope, and it isn’t subverting it at all, it’s a full blooded carbon copy of the going native trope.

And my reaction to your reaction is, "So what?" 2.8 billion global box office and a best picture nomination; not so tired apparently.

Just imagine how much better that film would have been if Jake Sully just followed orders, returned to earth at the end, got his spine fixed, the end. Box office gold! just give James Cameron all the moneys. 

[Veltigar]

2 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

Yeah I mean, like I say, I enjoy other similarly stupid movies, many of them involving Vin Diesel. I don't know exactly what it was about Avatar that made it harder to forgive the dumbness, but it did. 

 

Maybe it's Vin Diesel's evident superiority over Sam Worthington as an actor. 

Vin Diesel is terrible, but he's terrible in a commanding, funny and somewhat endearing way. Worthington is just a blank slate, someone they just put in there to not have so much empty space at the center of the screen. When a performer has no charisma whatsoever, it really hurts a film.

I suppose one of the reasons why a lot of people soured on Avatar was its huge popularity. There are so many more deserving films that could have been the top grossing film of all time, but in a show that the universe is unjust we ended up with Avatar.

7 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

He also shot 2 and 3 back to back. Avatar 3 is currently in post production and comes out next year.  And I guess he spent a few years mapping out the complete saga. He was also writer/producer on Alita: Battle Angel. Plus a bunch of other stuff. 

Imagine that two bombs XD That would be a sight to see.

[Veltigar]

9 hours ago, Heartofice said:

He also produced Dark Fate. Don’t forget that.

Never forget 

[Heartofice]

28 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

And my reaction to your reaction is, "So what?" 2.8 billion global box office and a best picture nomination; not so tired apparently.

Lol, didn't you start this conversation by saying how Avatar is this counter to the Marvel money making machine? I'm sure we are all aware by now that how much money a movie makes is not a good indicator of quality, but usually good marketing and hype. Hell Jurassic World and Fast and Furious 7 are in the top ten worldwide gross! Let that sink in!

And we won't even discuss the Oscars!

Anyway, I'd suggest the reason Avatar made all that money is because of the technology, the 3D created a hype machine like nothing else. It wasn't a movie, it was an experience, and everyone wanted a part of it. Thats why I wanna know what the new 'experience' is going to be when watching this movie.


 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Heartofice

[Werthead]

I think he read the script for Dark Fate and went, "Whatever." I doubt he was closely involved because he was actively filming Avatar 2/3 at the time (they started rolling camera in 2017, insanely, and started pre-production a couple of years earlier).

11 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

He also shot 2 and 3 back to back. Avatar 3 is currently in post production and comes out next year.  And I guess he spent a few years mapping out the complete saga. He was also writer/producer on Alita: Battle Angel. Plus a bunch of other stuff. 

Avatar 3 is due in 2024, not next year. Avatar 4 (which is partially shot as well, apparently) is down for 2026 and Avatar 5 (which still needs to be filmed) for 2028, when it will be terrifyingly 19 years since the first movie.

[Luzifer's right hand]

There are two movies that really blew me away with the special effects when they came out.

Independence Day and Avatar. Independence Day was surpassed but the 3D of Avatar was not I feel. 

If it goes all in on the 3D again I will definitely watch it. I expect the plot will be worth ignoring again but I kinda expect it to look incredible and I will either watch it in IMAX 3D or 4DX(which I really dig). I enjoy myself a good special effects orgy.

I mean most thing look better on my TV nowadays than in cinema which is a shame in a way. I doubt I would have watched many movies in cinema in the last two years if they kept they simultaneous releases of the first pandemic year. I mean 3D IMAX and 4DX are really the only things that top an OLED TV for me personally to be honest and they seldomly show movies in the OV in the auditoriums that are equipped with it here in Austria and I'm not into the German dubs anymore.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Luzifer's right hand

[sifth]

Not gonna lie, the whole ponytail, being used as a plug for nature, might be one of the dumbest ideas I’ve seen in a film.

[sifth]

4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Lol, didn't you start this conversation by saying how Avatar is this counter to the Marvel money making machine? I'm sure we are all aware by now that how much money a movie makes is not a good indicator of quality, but usually good marketing and hype. Hell Jurassic World and Fast and Furious 7 are in the top ten worldwide gross! Let that sink in!

And we won't even discuss the Oscars!

Anyway, I'd suggest the reason Avatar made all that money is because of the technology, the 3D created a hype machine like nothing else. It wasn't a movie, it was an experience, and everyone wanted a part of it. Thats why I wanna know what the new 'experience' is going to be when watching this movie.


 

It’s rather sad that most big budget films have devoled into amusement park rides, lol

[ithanos]

I saw the teaser trailer, when it played before DSitMoM, and like others if seemed inert. If anything, when I read the title, I got an itching to check out Waterworld again.  I would still line up to watch it on opening week, heck yeah. Watched the original in 3D and that technical experience has not been surpassed, so I can't wait to see what Cameron has in store for this series.  

I remember, when Avatar came out, I was talking with my cousin and he said he couldn't get into it after the Na'vi started putting their junk into other creatures' junk and going about their business. I didn't have a reply to that. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

8 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Lol, didn't you start this conversation by saying how Avatar is this counter to the Marvel money making machine? I'm sure we are all aware by now that how much money a movie makes is not a good indicator of quality, but usually good marketing and hype. Hell Jurassic World and Fast and Furious 7 are in the top ten worldwide gross! Let that sink in!

I suggested that what's going on with existing franchises is getting played out. And yeah, most of those MCU films are pretty bland and some are not nearly as good as the consensus would suggest. An original concept; entertaining and well executed? count me in.

I can honestly say I've never seen and F&F movie, or any of the new Jurassic Park films in their entirety. 

9 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Anyway, I'd suggest the reason Avatar made all that money is because of the technology, the 3D created a hype machine like nothing else. It wasn't a movie, it was an experience, and everyone wanted a part of it. Thats why I wanna know what the new 'experience' is going to be when watching this movie.

It is a movie. A movie about love.

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

Avatar 3 is due in 2024, not next year. Avatar 4 (which is partially shot as well, apparently) is down for 2026 and Avatar 5 (which still needs to be filmed) for 2028, when it will be terrifyingly 19 years since the first movie.

You are correct. It's 2 years between films, not one.

While no real reason was given, and there's been plenty of speculation in the press about "creative differences", I wonder if the real reason Rogue Squadron was pushed back was because they didn't want it and Avatar "x" cannibalizing ticket sales from each other. They both owned by the same company after all. 

[polishgenius]

30 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 

I can honestly say I've never seen and F&F movie

 

If you count Hobbes and Shaw there are ten of 'em and nine of them are better than Avatar. Of course, you will definitely not agree with this. But they are, for the most part, fun. 

 

(I like 2F2F more than Avatar as well, but it is objectively an absolute load of fucking shite so...)