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Solved Mysteries


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The Tyrells have every reason to be afraid of what Joffrey might do to Margaery.  Sure, he may be truly smitten with her now (though appearances can be deceiving), but it's not right now they're worried about.  It's a year, or two, or three, down the road that worries them.  Joffrey is nothing if not inconstant.  And given his penchant for cruelty, his erratic nature, and disdain for good governance, the possibility of friction with the Tyrells looms large.  Under such circumstances, it is easy to imagine Joffrey lashing out at his wife,  and equally easy to imagine Loras impulsively killing Joffrey as a result.  That is the sort of thing they are worried about.  And don't even suggest that Joffrey and Loras are too sensible to do any such thing.  They're not.  They're both quite prone to impulsive and irrational actions. 

Men have a long history of abusing intimate partners.  Sansa was such a person,  and Margaery would be too.  And a propensity to harm one partner is good reason to believe he will harm future ones. 

If there is a policy or custom that justifies Sansa's beatings, it would appear to be a mystery to both Tyrion, as acting Hand, and Jaime , as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.  Both were visibly angered by her treatment, and clearly believed it was wrong.  If those two know nothing about such a policy or custom, I'm inclined to believe it doesn't exist. 

By the way, why again are they worried about Tyrion.  Because he might help Tywin attack the Reach?  Tywin himself might be a threat, though I doubt it.  Though I could see him maybe doing something if Joffrey got killed.  Which is why you kill Joffrey now when you aren't suspected.  In any case, if Tywin is the threat, deal with him.  Not the guy who may or may not be able or even willing to help him.

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11 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

I invited you to start a different thread so you would avoid hijacking this one but it seems you just can't let it go.  It's truly remarkable you constantly conflating opinion with fact but no matter how you jump up and down it doesn't make it so.  You think you're right.  We get that.  We don't agree.  Agree to disagree and move on :dunno:

I'm going to agree to disagree with you here. :D  I don't know if it was the Bard's intention, but the OP itself invites disagreement about what is solved or not solved.

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11 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm going to agree to disagree with you here. :D  I don't know if it was the Bard's intention, but the OP itself invites disagreement about what is solved or not solved.

My point was to gather a list of the solved mysteries in ASOIAF. If you don’t think the Purple Wedding is solved, then this really isn’t the thread for you, since that would make it an unsolved mystery. 

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52 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

My point was to gather a list of the solved mysteries in ASOIAF. If you don’t think the Purple Wedding is solved, then this really isn’t the thread for you, since that would make it an unsolved mystery. 

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

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14 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Also if a character admitting point-blank that they assassinated someone is a misdirect, then does that mean that Lysa didn’t really poison Jon either? Clearly it was Hugh of the Vale who did it, and Lysa just deluded herself into believing it was her!

My point is that I don't know if it's possible to come up with a list of solved mysteries that won't be disputed by someone.  Up until recently;  I would have said MMD's answer to Dany's question about seeing Drogo again was:  no, never.  Since when does the sun rise in the west and set in the east?  Then I ran into Tyrion's question about sunrise shifting from the east to the west in ADWD.  So what's the answer now?  Most people will still think the answer is never; but I've changed my mind.  Does that mean I shouldn't bring it up?

 

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15 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

My point was to gather a list of the solved mysteries in ASOIAF. If you don’t think the Purple Wedding is solved, then this really isn’t the thread for you, since that would make it an unsolved mystery. 

Lol, if you don’t want to debate about whether a mystery is solved don’t start a thread listing mysteries you think are solved.  And btw, I don’t think the cats paw has been solved either.

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1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Lol, if you don’t want to debate about whether a mystery is solved don’t start a thread listing mysteries you think are solved.  And btw, I don’t think the cats paw has been solved either.

Fair enough, but if those mysteries haven’t been solved in five books, then I don’t think most of them will be solved in just two.

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On 5/27/2022 at 8:53 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

And yet you’ve provided nothing to refute any of it. Not sure what else I can say at this point, my friend.

There's nothing that can be provided to refute someone having said something they didn't say. GRRM could have confirmed Olenna murdered Joffrey, instead he has very deliberately and carefully chosen not to confirm it, and you continue to lie about it.

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18 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

There's nothing that can be provided to refute someone having said something they didn't say. GRRM could have confirmed Olenna murdered Joffrey, instead he has very deliberately and carefully chosen not to confirm it, and you continue to lie about it.

I provided the quotes that I believe are a confirmation. Plenty of other people on this thread read them and agree with me. Us disagreeing on that is a matter of interpretation, not lying. 

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8 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I provided the quotes that I believe are a confirmation. Plenty of other people on this thread read them and agree with me. Us disagreeing on that is a matter of interpretation, not lying. 

Just nonsense, what you quoted doesn't say what you said it does, you're a straight up liar.

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On 5/27/2022 at 8:30 PM, the trees have eyes said:

I invited you to start a different thread so you would avoid hijacking this one but it seems you just can't let it go.  It's truly remarkable you constantly conflating opinion with fact but no matter how you jump up and down it doesn't make it so.  You think you're right.  We get that.  We don't agree.  Agree to disagree and move on :dunno:

I didn't highjack anything. This is in direct response to the OP's OP. The pie is not conflating opinion with fact, only the wine does that. The pie is seeing the truth in the actual facts in the book, not the imaginary ones needed to support the wine.

If you want to move on, then move on.

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Let’s try this: what mysteries have we been given answers to within the text regardless of whether they turn out to be misdirects/red herrings? In this case, for instance, Sansa beheading Sweetrobin’s doll would count as her “slaying a savage giant” and putting Aegon on the throne would be Varys’ true motivations, even if those are disproven/retconned in future books.

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6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Let’s try this: what mysteries have we been given answers to within the text regardless of whether they turn out to be misdirects/red herrings? In this case, for instance, Sansa beheading Sweetrobin’s doll would count as her “slaying a savage giant” and putting Aegon on the throne would be Varys’ true motivations, even if those are disproven/retconned in future books.

don't change the thread Bard! it's fun to see people's views on (un)solved mysteries:smoking:

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Watching In Deep Geek's podcast the other day LOTR and he often reminds viewers that he wants the chat room to be a safe place.  His podcasts are about discussing what we love and enjoy about books, tv shows etc.  There are other podcasters out there with the same approach:  Radio Westeros, History of Westeros, Joe Magician, to name a few.  They are always upbeat and energizing.

Here's Martin on the strange phenomena of hating what we love:

Quote

 “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power isn’t even on yet, but if you follow what’s going on online, the controversy about it is like World War Two. They’re dropping atomic bombs on each other,” Martin said. “It used to be if you were a fan of Star Trek, you liked Star Trek. Now it seems like half the people who call themselves Star Trek fans hate Star Trek, and the Star Wars fans hate Star Wars, and the Tolkien fans hate Rings of Power. What the hell?”

George RR Martin Calls Out Fan Hate - Gameranx

I haven't followed any of these fan boards but I did get the picture when Star Trek Discovery first aired.  I loved it!  When I went looking for discussion, I ran into that wall of fan hate.  So I just never went back. 

I feel the same way about House of Dragons.  I'm pretty naive about it and I know so little, that it's impossible to spoil it for me.  What I don't want is someone telling me why I shouldn't enjoy it before I've even seen it.  I don't want a pre-emptive set of negative expectations coloring my perception.  And I really don't care, if it's not exactly what people who know the material are expecting.

So why does it become a sore spot when people disagree about solved/unsolved mysteries?  Can we call these ideas "working theories" with the view that people can change their minds.

As for GRRM retconning; I find that fascinating.  Did he set up both scenarios about Joffrey/Tyrion as the target of the Purple Wedding and then choose to go with Joffrey?

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38 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Watching In Deep Geek's podcast the other day LOTR and he often reminds viewers that he wants the chat room to be a safe place.  His podcasts are about discussing what we love and enjoy about books, tv shows etc.  There are other podcasters out there with the same approach:  Radio Westeros, History of Westeros, Joe Magician, to name a few.  They are always upbeat and energizing.

Here's Martin on the strange phenomena of hating what we love:

George RR Martin Calls Out Fan Hate - Gameranx

I haven't followed any of these fan boards but I did get the picture when Star Trek Discovery first aired.  I loved it!  When I went looking for discussion, I ran into that wall of fan hate.  So I just never went back. 

I feel the same way about House of Dragons.  I'm pretty naive about it and I know so little, that it's impossible to spoil it for me.  What I don't want is someone telling me why I shouldn't enjoy it before I've even seen it.  I don't want a pre-emptive set of negative expectations coloring my perception.  And I really don't care, if it's not exactly what people who know the material are expecting.

So why does it become a sore spot when people disagree about solved/unsolved mysteries?  Can we call these ideas "working theories" with the view that people can change their minds.

As for GRRM retconning; I find that fascinating.  Did he set up both scenarios about Joffrey/Tyrion as the target of the Purple Wedding and then choose to go with Joffrey?

I don’t really see the connection between hating franchises and disagreeing about theories. 

Yes, some fans can be very toxic. But George has been spending an awful lot of time complaining about his fans lately, and it just feeds into this mentality that it’s somehow the fans’ fault that the books aren’t done or the show failed to stick the landing. It’s like when a candidate loses an election (or, God forbid, only wins by a slim margin) and all the pundits blame the voters and not the person doing the campaigning for their votes. 

He also made this ironic comment about how you can’t keep telling the same story over and over again. Meanwhile, we’ve already gotten four renditions of the Dance of the Dragons (TRP, TPATQ, TWOIAF, FnB) and are about to get two more (HOTD and Rise of the Dragon).

6 hours ago, Aebram said:

I knew this thread was headed for trouble as soon as I saw the title.  :dunno:

 

2 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

I knew this thread was headed for trouble when a certain person arrived. :)

I failed to anticipate how angry this thread would make people. I guess that’s my own fault.

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