Westworld X: Reloaded for Fourth Season

[Cas Stark]

9 minutes ago, sifth said:

Believe me, I was hate watching season 3, towards the end. It was the early days of lock down and I was bored out of my mind, so I figured the show helped kill an hour or so of my time, but man did it make me angry after watching what happened. Heck I use to watch this show and Better Call Saul season 5 back to back and the difference in writing was insane.

I just can't bring myself to watch season 4. Maybe one day I'll give it a try, but it would probably take another lock down and nothing else on tv, for me to even consider watching it again.

I will definitely watch this season at some point, but I'll probably wait until it's finished so I will know what to expect. I must have rewatched season 1 at least 5+ times, I probably rewatched season 2 once.  Unless there is a huge increase in the quality of this season, I don't expect to rewatch 3, probably ever.

[Ran]

  

On 6/27/2022 at 8:19 AM, DireWolfSpirit said:

Saw S4/1-

The only way I'm going to feel in tune with this is if I do a rewatch of S3 because I'm completely lost with what this storyline is at this point?

I do wish they had done a season 3 recap episode. That said, Wikipedia's episode summaries for season 3 are pretty concise.

On 6/27/2022 at 11:18 AM, psynetik123 said:

The opening credits clearly show an artificial fly being created just like one of the Hosts, so obviously they're some sort of AI robot thing created by Halores to control and manipulate humans, in the same way that humans used to control the Hosts. Which explains why that Spanish dude ended up doing William's bidding against his will.

My thought was that he was knocked out and a host copy was made that was forced to do what they wanted. He was probably killed after they replicated his mind in the host. But it is all sorts of odd. I'm kind of wondering if the great mass of flies amount to the same mass as the guy, so they basically dissolve and turn into a copy...

On 6/27/2022 at 11:26 AM, psynetik123 said:

It looks like the world that Christina inhabits is another park. Or it could be the real world that Halores is transforming into a park, as part of her plan to take revenge on humanity.

I feel like she's in the Sublime/the Valley Beyond rather than the real world, personally. Her writing NPCs while there are people like "Peter" or the homeless guy going on about a tower and feeling like things aren't right... I feel like those are in fact host-style NPCs who know something is wrong and blame this avatar of Dolores because she's the one who's perverted the Sublime towards... what? Figuring out an end to humanity? That I'm not sure about.

On 6/27/2022 at 11:26 AM, psynetik123 said:

Notice how at the very beginning Christina wakes up the exact same way Dolores did in Season 1. The housemate asking her to choose black or white shoes. There's also those dudes at the beginning saying things like "This place is fucking wild"

Funnily enough, I was skimming the first episode and there's a guest who says those exact words in the first episode.

That said, I feel like these are also "NPCs" who believe they are guests in this simulated world. 

It's the best explanation I can come up with for why Teddy is around, since she uploaded him to the Sublime. But again, if Dolores has changed the Sublime to do something...

On 6/27/2022 at 3:53 PM, Myrddin said:

I haven't watched it yet (we're rotating out of HBO until the fall), but it sounds like you're describing a Matrix-like scenario where everything is virtual (explains Teddy) and the machines are trapping humans in a VR alternate reality.

I feel like right now the Sublime is hermetically sealed, hence William wanting to get the encryption codes. So I'm not sure if humans are being pulled into it.

On 6/28/2022 at 6:24 AM, DMC said:

Well, "William" would presumably know what Charlotte-Dolores knows, and unless I'm misremembering Season 3 wrong (totally possible), for all Charlotte-Dolores knows, Dolores-Dolores is the only one who knew where the encryption key is.  In other words, Charlotte-Dolores does not know Bernard has the encryption key based on what we've seen.  Anyway, in that vein it is not surprising that William would refer to the Dolores that "died" at the end of Season 3 as, ya know, dead.

I think that's correct.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

7 hours ago, Myrddin said:

I wonder how many people wait until more episodes are released before starting. I know in our household, very few shows are watched on release (and those are driven by me like Wheel of Time or Kenobi). My family will all just wait until they can binge the whole season.

I'm not saying audiences haven't lost interest in Westworld, just that viewing habits have changed so I hope their metrics for success get updated too.  

I don’t like binging shows.  I prefer to watch as the episodes are released.

[Fragile Bird]

3 hours ago, Ran said:

  

It's the best explanation I can come up with for why Teddy is around, since she uploaded him to the Sublime. But again, if Dolores has changed the Sublime to do something...

I feel like right now the Sublime is hermetically sealed, hence William wanting to get the encryption codes. So I'm not sure if humans are being pulled into it.

I think that's correct.

Are we supposed to think the writers are feeding us falsehoods? It has been announced that James Marsden is NOT Teddy in this season, just like Evan Rachel Wood is not Dolores. 

But yes, the Sublime is sealed. Bernard seems to have spent 7 years there, finding out what happens after the end of the world. I was wondering what happened to Stubbs, was he stuck in the bathtub all that time? He does seem to have survived, though, but since Bernard was covered in dust I imagine he was indeed in the tub all that time.

[DMC]

4 hours ago, Ran said:

My thought was that he was knocked out and a host copy was made that was forced to do what they wanted. He was probably killed after they replicated his mind in the host.

I dunno, I like the idea that the flies are controlling the actual person's mind better.  Like, if the actual cartel leader was replicated into a host, and then that host killed himself, wouldn't that eventually be discovered by the authorities (if there are any actual governmental authorities in Westworld's future, it's very unclear) and/or the cartel?  And wouldn't that be a major tipoff Charlotte-Dolores does not want to reveal to any humans?

As for where "Christina" and not-Teddy are, they very clearly want us to think they are in the sublime.  Which of course means they're not.

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

Are we supposed to think the writers are feeding us falsehoods? It has been announced that James Marsden is NOT Teddy in this season, just like Evan Rachel Wood is not Dolores. 

But yes, the Sublime is sealed. Bernard seems to have spent 7 years there, finding out what happens after the end of the world. I was wondering what happened to Stubbs, was he stuck in the bathtub all that time? He does seem to have survived, though, but since Bernard was covered in dust I imagine he was indeed in the tub all that time.

I say yes.  Not Teddy is still protecting Not Dolores, who sleeps exactly how Dolores slept and whose writing is pretty reminiscent of Dolores loop.  I would think that Not Dolores is in some kind of loop because black shoe or white shoe was not accidental.

I'm glad to see ERW and Marsden especially back, but by doing this, the show has basically removed the stakes because almost no one stays dead....it is veering into secret cylon territory.

[grozeng]

Is the Sublime that place that Thandie Newton's character was trying to go to with her daughter during one of the seasons?  Like others, I feel like I forgot a lot about this show between seasons 3 and 4.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I don’t like binging shows.  I prefer to watch as the episodes are released.

Some shows are better binged. WW was never one of those. Too much blurs together.

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

I dunno, I like the idea that the flies are controlling the actual person's mind better.  Like, if the actual cartel leader was replicated into a host, and then that host killed himself, wouldn't that eventually be discovered by the authorities (if there are any actual governmental authorities in Westworld's future, it's very unclear) and/or the cartel?  And wouldn't that be a major tipoff Charlotte-Dolores does not want to reveal to any humans?

As for where "Christina" and not-Teddy are, they very clearly want us to think they are in the sublime.  Which of course means they're not.

Also wasn't he like twitching and eager to be allowed to put himself out of his misery? I assumed the flys reprogrammed his brain by eating parts of it.

[Ran]

2 hours ago, grozeng said:

Is the Sublime that place that Thandie Newton's character was trying to go to with her daughter during one of the seasons?  Like others, I feel like I forgot a lot about this show between seasons 3 and 4.

Yes. It was called the Valley Beyond as well, and looked like a beautiful valley when the hosts crossed over. I forget who first called it the Sublime -- Bernard, probably.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

The wig on Aaron Paul is so distracting...

ETA: Another weak episode imo. 

[DMC]

I like Maeve and Jesse together.  And Clementine is awesome.  I enjoyed the episode, other than Evan Rachel Wood's segments, which are already growing tiresome.  Now gimme some Bernard and Stubbs!

[Winterfell is Burning]

Maeve is always pretty good, but I'm still struggling to care. This is not a show that can afford to not be firing on all cylinders right out of the gate because it doesn't have the audience's trust anymore.

[JGP]

More pieces, less of the puzzle. Hate that I love that kind of shit. 

[Jace, Extat]

'sawesome. 

Y'all're all trippin'. 

Tower world is way in the future, after Halores has killed all the humans and Bernarnold wakes up in the dusty motel. It's gonna be great. 

[Cas Stark]

14 hours ago, DMC said:

I like Maeve and Jesse together.  And Clementine is awesome.  I enjoyed the episode, other than Evan Rachel Wood's segments, which are already growing tiresome.  Now gimme some Bernard and Stubbs!

What about Maeve and Jesse do you like?  I find their chemistry is underwhelming to say the least and I just never warmed or cared much about his character and still don't.

[DMC]

17 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

What about Maeve and Jesse do you like?  I find their chemistry is underwhelming to say the least and I just never warmed or cared much about his character and still don't.

Well, I was gonna say the witty banter, but at this point Thandiwe Newton could make that work with a potted plant.  I guess just their dynamic and I like that it's clear Maeve not only cares about him but respects him.  It's a nice pickup from the end of season 3 when Maeve finally understands what Dolores-Dolores really intended to do, and it's almost like she's honoring her sacrifice.  I also like that he seems to care about her too - worried about her not having a gun as they enter Westworld 2.0.  Oh, and I also loved at the end where the host in Elon Musk's ex's role asks Jesse to pick a black or white hat and he's just like "nah, yo."

I mean, if you don't like Caleb as a character obviously you're not gonna like their relationship either.  And I understand the criticisms that Paul is basically just playing Jesse - that's why I refer to him as Jesse.  But I did a mini re-watch last night of the second half of season 3, and while I think the character (and Paul) could be better I still like having a Regular Human perspective.

Speaking of rewatching season 3, could help but focus on the opening scene of the Genre episode - when Serac is getting a Latin American dictator to comply and the dictator is repeatedly distracted by a fly.  I remember we discussed that fly and what it was for quite some time when the episode came out then..nothing came of it.  Obviously, now gotta wonder if it was Serac/Rehoboam that developed the mind control flies.

[Cas Stark]

20 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well, I was gonna say the witty banter, but at this point Thandiwe Newton could make that work with a potted plant.  I guess just their dynamic and I like that it's clear Maeve not only cares about him but respects him.  It's a nice pickup from the end of season 3 when Maeve finally understands what Dolores-Dolores really intended to do, and it's almost like she's honoring her sacrifice.  I also like that he seems to care about her too - worried about her not having a gun as they enter Westworld 2.0.  Oh, and I also loved at the end where the host in Elon Musk's ex's role asks Jesse to pick a black or white hat and he's just like "nah, yo."

I mean, if you don't like Caleb as a character obviously you're not gonna like their relationship either.  And I understand the criticisms that Paul is basically just playing Jesse - that's why I refer to him as Jesse.  But I did a mini re-watch last night of the second half of season 3, and while I think the character (and Paul) could be better I still like having a Regular Human perspective.

Speaking of rewatching season 3, could help but focus on the opening scene of the Genre episode - when Serac is getting a Latin American dictator to comply and the dictator is repeatedly distracted by a fly.  I remember we discussed that fly and what it was for quite some time when the episode came out then..nothing came of it.  Obviously, now gotta wonder if it was Serac/Rehoboam that developed the mind control flies.

 

I waited and waited in season 3 for Caleb's arc to get interesting or for his character to get interesting, I was never interested.  I might have been less interested if it wasn't Pinkman and was a no name actor, but that's about it.  Compare Maeve chemistry with Jesse to Hector, I would say no comparison. 

Yes, it seems like they may be doing a better job with the puzzle this season, but I suspect for a lot of people, it's too late.  

I hadn't remembered the flies from season 3, but tht makes sense.

 

[DMC]

15 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Compare Maeve chemistry with Jesse to Hector, I would say no comparison. 

Again, part of the appeal for me is just Jesse being a regular human, so the comparison doesn't really work.

[JGP]

Former military operator, some PTSD, but direction and acting have gone off angle compared to most characters with that background. Caleb's restraint, doesn't puff his chest, capable but doesn't broadcast overmuch, that also works for me.