RumHam Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Cas Stark said: Season 4-looks to be back to season 2 level quality. Yeah, but I miss Hopkins. If they got him back for an episode this season I'd be really glad. I mean why wouldn't Halores make a host version of her creator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Y'all're'll missing the trees for the forest. Caleb was able to resist the compulsion, demonstrating Free Will. That's what Halores is trying to recapture in Caleb2.0 That's what she's trying to rebuild in Christina. It's not about ties and mystery boxes. It's about choices. And the power to give them instead of just taking them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 43 minutes ago, Babblebauble said: Caleb was able to resist the compulsion, demonstrating Free Will. That's what Halores is trying to recapture in Caleb2.0 Wouldn't it be the opposite? Caleb iteration 278 (or whatever number Halores said) didn't fawn to her order. It would also suggest that 277 (or however many) pervious versions also did not just follow her order, meaning her control was not perfect and absolute (i.e. Caleb, even in simulation, seems to retain some degree of free will). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 21 minutes ago, .H. said: Wouldn't it be the opposite? Caleb iteration 278 (or whatever number Halores said) didn't fawn to her order. It would also suggest that 277 (or however many) pervious versions also did not just follow her order, meaning her control was not perfect and absolute (i.e. Caleb, even in simulation, seems to retain some degree of free will). You'll see. I've already said too much, I must return to the future lest it note my absence. Fair fortune, Huu-Mans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 5 hours ago, Babblebauble said: Y'all're'll missing the trees for the forest. Caleb was able to resist the compulsion, demonstrating Free Will. That's what Halores is trying to recapture in Caleb2.0 That's what she's trying to rebuild in Christina. It's not about ties and mystery boxes. It's about choices. And the power to give them instead of just taking them away. Yeah I think that's the best hypothesis for what she's after so far that covers both "why Caleb" and what she's trying to do with Christina. I yield to your superior grasp of the authors intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 On 7/18/2022 at 1:51 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I got the impression that hosts are actually… writting… the lives of humans as humans are now NPCs for Hosts. Well… well… well… a little more specific than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 So my thought is that all of this (teddy, Emmett, Christina's roommate) is done specifically to emulate Dolores original storyline to give a new Dolores a choice - whether to free the humans or control them. She is given the power and the option. All of the awakening of it just halores being nostalgic to a certain degree, giving herself another chance to break a different reality. And Bernard and Maeve have nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Well that was creepy as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 I am still trying to reconcile the opening sequence, of the data storage place on the dam, with whatever is supposed to be happening with Christina. I figured they were trying to data-mine her for the key to access the encrypted data. But, I guess maybe the aim was actually to try to just make her complicit and decrypt the data of her own choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grozeng Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I didn't follow when Caleb was supposedly killed. Was it when he was stabbed in the park? I agree he is probably alive in suspended animation somewhere, but I had a hard time following between the opening scene when he was shot and when he was stabbed. Were those separate incidents or him just remembering things incorrectly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, grozeng said: I didn't follow when Caleb was supposedly killed. Was it when he was stabbed in the park? No, I'd think it was when he was infected by the flies. IIRC, he blacks out (just before Maeve comes and gets him) and, presumably, this is where we are seeing the host-version of him is now doing fidelity runs. It is why he can be stabbed in the park, since he isn't human any more (at that point). But, indeed, he might not be dead, he might just be substituted. Such substitutions. They have happened before. (Sorry couldn't resist.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grozeng Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, .H. said: No, I'd think it was when he was infected by the flies. IIRC, he blacks out (just before Maeve comes and gets him) and, presumably, this is where we are seeing the host-version of him is now doing fidelity runs. It is why he can be stabbed in the park, since he isn't human any more (at that point). But, indeed, he might not be dead, he might just be substituted. Such substitutions. They have happened before. (Sorry couldn't resist.) That is what I thought at first too. And that Maeve was able to sort of control him or calm him down since he has the flies in him and they are probably some part technology she could control. But all the jumping around in the Caleb part of the story was confusing. I figured Bernard was the "future", but couldn't place all of the Caleb parts. Caleb being able to see the tower probably supports him being substituted too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 2 hours ago, .H. said: No, I'd think it was when he was infected by the flies. IIRC, he blacks out (just before Maeve comes and gets him) and, presumably, this is where we are seeing the host-version of him is now doing fidelity runs. It is why he can be stabbed in the park, since he isn't human any more (at that point). But, indeed, he might not be dead, he might just be substituted. Such substitutions. They have happened before. (Sorry couldn't resist.) Huh, I thought he was human until he got gunned down by Hale's goons. He was just able to resist the flies somehow and that interest Hale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, RumHam said: Huh, I thought he was human until he got gunned down by Hale's goons. He was just able to resist the flies somehow and that interest Hale. Yeah, this. Caleb gets stabbed but survives it - he's pretty tough and has survived similar wounds in the past (like when he blew up that other AI). He gets killed when he thinks he's calling for the cavalry and instead Hale's troops mow him down. They did want him to get infected, but after he kidnapped Hale and almost killed MiB I don't think they really cared about it at that point all that much. And yeah, Caleb was able to somewhat resist but it wasn't because of Maeve's powers; it was because he cared for Maeve. Hale already had said that the control was not great in the first generation and you had to really have it since early on before it would work well on you. Caleb was just another example of the control not being quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grozeng Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, KalVsWade said: Yeah, this. Caleb gets stabbed but survives it - he's pretty tough and has survived similar wounds in the past (like when he blew up that other AI). He gets killed when he thinks he's calling for the cavalry and instead Hale's troops mow him down. They did want him to get infected, but after he kidnapped Hale and almost killed MiB I don't think they really cared about it at that point all that much. And yeah, Caleb was able to somewhat resist but it wasn't because of Maeve's powers; it was because he cared for Maeve. Hale already had said that the control was not great in the first generation and you had to really have it since early on before it would work well on you. Caleb was just another example of the control not being quite right. OK. So he gets infected. Resists. Maeve and Caleb take Hale outside where he gets stabbed. They end up in a that construction zone or whatever it was and Hale and Caleb go into a room while Maeve fights the Man in Black. Maeve blows up. Caleb thinks he is talking to his friends, but they are probably infected or whatever happened to the guy from Good Girls that tried to take out his family. Hale's people come and shoot Caleb. Caleb dies. Then 26 years of trying to control him happen where they are trying to get the flies right and figure out why he could resist? Is that right? I still got the sense that Maeve was somehow looking into Caleb's mind after the flies, but maybe it was just to show that they cared for each other and not that she was trying to do her technology control thing. And I still think there is a human Caleb being held somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 14 hours ago, grozeng said: Then 26 years of trying to control him happen where they are trying to get the flies right and figure out why he could resist? I don't know about 'trying to get the flies right' - but something like that. My understanding from the show is that they simply found out what they had worked fine on kids but not on adults, and it was more about ensuring that was working. As to Caleb, I figure Hale decided to get his brain saved and stored because she was fascinated by him and his resistance in the same way Dolores was originally too. But I really think we just don't have that info yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 I wonder if this will get another season. The audience numbers are still abysmal. I hope whatever they do they don't end on some kind of cliffhanger in case it doesn't get another year. What a waste of potential. I do still think that this season is much improved over 3, but too little too late. Between the long pauses between seasons and the drop in quality, it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Finally caught up on the last two episodes, just wanted to say this is easily my favorite season since 1 unless the ending sucks hard. Everything's pretty clear but there's still a good amount of mystery. Joy and Nolan finally found their goldilocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TormundsWoman Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 So Wyatt/Dolores/Hale's disappointment with Caleb left us with the question unanswered. Why and how original Caleb resisted her fly parasite infection. Gotta say seeing all those Calebs was a creepy as fuck moment. I felt so bad him using himself and then apologizing for it. But "Yay Maeve!" Not only do we not know how human Caleb resisted but do we even know if Hale didn't truly lie about human Caleb being dead-dead? I mean MIB's human head is still on freeze ready to be defrosted if questions exist to which he only knows the answer. Why not Caleb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 14 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said: So Wyatt/Dolores/Hale's disappointment with Caleb left us with the question unanswered. Why and how original Caleb resisted her fly parasite infection I think he was just the first "outlier" she encountered. I don't think we're going to get a better explanation than "some people can resist it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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