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Westworld X: Reloaded for Fourth Season


Myrddin
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Yeah, I thought the show was quite clear - Hale thinks that Caleb and other outliers are somehow special and doing 4d chess because her basis is that her species is perfect and flawless and therefore if something goes wrong, it must be an external cause.

She can't comprehend that her species and her creations are flawed the same ways humans are, by design. 

The show is clear on this. Hale isn't. 

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8 hours ago, RumHam said:

I think he was just the first "outlier" she encountered. I don't think we're going to get a better explanation than "some people can resist it"

Perhaps you’re correct and we will never get a clear explanation because the writers either didn’t think it through or they want to leave it vague.

I still find it misleading though for human Caleb to drop that line about “Because I have something you don’t have”. If it’s something he specifically has, or maybe the outliers specifically have then they should say so eventually. If the line was meant something like “humanity” or “free will” or some other human sentiments then why are there so few outliers. It is also a shame to have Hale look two eps worth of television for something that was alluded to and built to and then left hanging. 

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46 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said:

If it’s something he specifically has, or maybe the outliers specifically have then they should say so eventually. If the line was meant something like “humanity” or “free will” or some other human sentiments then why are there so few outliers.

You must've really hated The Matrix.

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31 minutes ago, DMC said:

You must've really hated The Matrix.

You deduced this based on my two comments? Why? I don’t hate Westworld because of this. I’m here ain’t I? And you don’t see me bashing it.

PS. I positively loved Neo and Trinity’s story. So much so I watched the last one too.

Take that DMC! :blush:

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38 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said:

You deduced this based on my two comments? Why?

The criticism "If the line was meant something like “humanity” or “free will” or some other human sentiments then why are there so few outliers" could just as easily be leveled at Matrix.  Indeed, even more so.

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I thought it was clear from the first arrow sign on the grate that this was simply host Caleb's route and Hale was letting them stack together to see how far he could get, and what he'd ultimately do. The roof top he finally got out onto being the same (or similar) to the roof he was working on in the first ep of the season just really cemented that this was intended all from the start.

I also think this episode confirmed that original Caleb was indeed shot by the people he thought were his reinforcements and that Hale waking him up in that site office is the start of Host Caleb's loop. That's why real Maeve was indeed buried there.

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I don't know why this is even up for discussion.  Caleb's human death made perfect sense when Hale explained it to him in that episode - she even warned him and Maeve earlier in the episode they weren't going to get out of the park alive, but Maeve might alone.  As for all the Calebs, I mean the viewer had to assume she was aware of all those dead or dying copies strewn about.

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I wondered what the hell Hale thought Caleb was going to say to his daughter: “the secret to staying alive and defeating them is doing X, Y and Z”? Thus being so disappointed? She doesn’t get humans the way final Dolores and Maeve do.

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11 hours ago, DMC said:

The criticism "If the line was meant something like “humanity” or “free will” or some other human sentiments then why are there so few outliers" could just as easily be leveled at Matrix.  Indeed, even more so.

Maybe I forgot something but to my recollection the Matrix original movie was pretty clear that Neo was the Messiah that Morpheus was actively looking for. The One. The "free will" concept was exercised more out of curiosity when presented with a choice (red pill/ blue pill). These are not people who saw the matrix by themselves like our outliers suddenly see the thing that Dolores/Hale built and know they are puppets and that the other Dolores is writing their storylines.

Also: That wasn't really criticism, that was just a question as the series is not yet done and an answer may actually surface however unlikely. As Tissaia de Vries would say: sometimes a flower is just a flower!

 

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2 hours ago, TormundsWoman said:

Also: That wasn't really criticism, that was just a question as the series is not yet done and an answer may actually surface however unlikely. As Tissaia de Vries would say: sometimes a flower is just a flower!

I think you're being way too oversensitive about the comment.  I was (at least) half joking.

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17 minutes ago, DMC said:

I think you're being way too oversensitive about the comment.  I was (at least) half joking.

I probably am. It’s a new forum for me. New peeps. Cannot say I’ve ever seen any comment of yours where you’re not serious or talk about something serious so I cannot tell if you’re (half) teasing or not. Maybe I’m not reading threads where you’re making tongue in cheek remarks. Sorry about that.

also: I like Westworld a lot. I think there was a dip in coherence and quality in the third season but I enjoyed it all the same. Aaron Paul was also not finding his stride imo in the role they wrote for him. So if I think my comments were misinterpreted as criticism I am most likely overreacting.

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38 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said:

I probably am. It’s a new forum for me. New peeps. Cannot say I’ve ever seen any comment of yours where you’re not serious or talk about something serious so I cannot tell if you’re (half) teasing or not. Maybe I’m not reading threads where you’re making tongue in cheek remarks. Sorry about that.

No worries!  I joke and tease in all threads, including the politics threads.

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Ain't watched the current-est one yet, but that last episode was fire. Major Portal vibes. I was jumping out of my seat saying in my best Arnold Schwarzenegger "Caleb, Nein! Nein! Der Kuchen ist eine Lüge!"

 

I love how Caleb's basically throwaway comment "you don't have what we have", which is like the corny line 'we have love, and friendship that's why we'll win' has driven Halores insane. I clapped. I clapped when she started ranting about it.

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I resigned up for HBO Max and I'm slowly catching up. 4 episodes in. That last episode, hot damn.

Spoiler

I was mildly annoyed that we were dealing with different timelines again, but loved the revelation.

 

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All the Ed Harris! Positively delighted. Version of him… still him. Somehow it’s even worse. Ashley Stubbs though was all kinds of hilarious and he’s also one I’m rooting for.

So:

Spoiler

before MIB shot the main three characters we love, are confused about and/or love to hate (Maeve, Bernard, Hale),

Arnold did something and his communication ends with:

”if you choose to give her that choice you can’t miss. Reach with your left hand”

Is he talking with Dolores who’s in the Sublime? Is he talking with the chief Akecheta? Who’s he talking to? Himself? And who’s she?

Spoiler

If he predicted the end then he most likely saw that Maeve and Hale are dead. He also knows Christina is not in that world, though I have to say that particular bit is weird, because she had physical contact with real people(?) maybe. Now I’d have to go back and look if there was actual physical contact with humans.

The only one who’s left to whom a chance could be given though is (to my thinking) human Frankie. So maybe all is not that lost. Maybe.

 

I find it funny that Barnard’s advices all come super practical and short: make left at the fork, reach with the right hand.

Edited by TormundsWoman
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14 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said:

All the Ed Harris! Positively delighted. Version of him… still him. Somehow it’s even worse. Ashley Stubbs though was all kinds of hilarious and he’s also one I’m rooting for.

So: before MIB shot the main three characters we love, are confused about and/or love to hate (Maeve, Bernard, Hale), Arnold did something and his communication ends with:

”if you choose to give her that choice you can’t miss. Reach with your left hand”

Is he talking with Dolores who’s in the Sublime? Is he talking with the chief Akecheta? Who’s he talking to? Himself? And who’s she? If he predicted the end then he most likely saw that Maeve and Hale are dead. He also knows Christina is not in that world, though I have to say that particular bit is weird, because she had physical contact with real people(?) maybe. Now I’d have to go back and look if there was actual physical contact with humans.

The only one who’s left to whom a chance could be given though is (to my thinking) human Frankie. So maybe all is not that lost. Maybe.

I find it funny that Barnard’s advices all come super practical and short: make left at the fork, reach with the right hand.

Bernard tells Stubbs he will not make it… but Stubbs is still kicking at the end of this episode…

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Bernard tells Stubbs he will not make it… but Stubbs is still kicking at the end of this episode…

I need to watch it again, but not sure he said that.  Bernard was basically saying goodbye to Stubbs because he knew he (Bernard) was going to die, but Stubbs immediately assumed that he was the one who wasn't going to make it and Bernard didn't correct him.   Possibly because in any future where Stubbs is told he'll make it, they fail.

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