Star Wars: Entering an uncivilized era

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

So either Force Awakens killed Last Jedi's box office, or Rogue One did. But It doesn't seem like Force Awakens ruined Rogue One's box office numbers at all.

The Last Jedi Killed The Last Jedi's box office.

 

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Well "morally" is entirely subjective, but no, he is certainly not "legally" (or criminally) responsible for Talia or Harvey's deaths.  Ra's?  Fair enough, I don't think the "I'm not gonna kill you, but I don't have to save you" distinction will serve as justification in court.

Only because there were extenuating circumstances in Harvey's and Tallia's cases. But he did kill those people. 

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The Last Jedi Killed The Last Jedi's box office.

Wait, I just read yesterday either here or somewhere else that it was the second highest grossing Star Wars movie.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

13 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Wait, I just read yesterday either here or somewhere else that it was the second highest grossing Star Wars movie.

1. Not when you adjust for ticket price inflation. 

2. First week's box office is 90% anticipation and hype. Look at how it performed after the first week compared to TFA. 

[Heartofice]

That first week of Last Jedis release saw reviews pouring in saying it was the next coming of Jesus! It was the best Star Wars movie ever apparently.

Then people not on the payroll saw the movie and were like ‘er…. What did I just watch??’

[mormont]

9 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

1. Not when you adjust for ticket price inflation. 

Adjusted for inflation, it's fifth: above Return of the Jedi, which I guess shows how terrible a film Empire Strikes Back was.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The Last Jedi Killed The Last Jedi's box office.

 

Only because there were extenuating circumstances in Harvey's and Tallia's cases. But he did kill those people. 

You said he was "legally responsible," and he certainly wouldn't be for Harvey and Talia as his actions were clearly justified.  I'm not even sure I'd say he "killed" Talia.  He was chasing her and in doing so caused Talia to crash her truck then subsequently die (while Gordon is miraculously fine in the back of the truck, btw).  Now, if he had no good reason for chasing her he could be found legally responsible for her death, sure.  But "trying to stop her from detonating a nuclear bomb" is pretty clear cut justification for chasing her/causing her to crash.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

23 minutes ago, mormont said:

Adjusted for inflation, it's fifth: above Return of the Jedi, which I guess shows how terrible a film Empire Strikes Back was.

Sure. Absolutely. 

Or

Maybe the early 80's economic recession had something to do with it. comparing the US box office of the 10 highest grossing films from 81, 82, & 83, I'd say thats a real possibility. And at the exact same time more well to do Americans are buying their first VCR's. Fascinating.

18 minutes ago, DMC said:

You said he was "legally responsible," and he certainly wouldn't be for Harvey and Talia as his actions were clearly justified. 

That's for the jury to figure out, buster. 

21 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm not even sure I'd say he "killed" Talia.  He was chasing her and in doing so caused Talia to crash her truck then subsequently die (while Gordon is miraculously fine in the back of the truck, btw).  

What? 

Um, If it pleases da court, your Honuh, You can clearly see da Bat Vigilante unloading on da vehicle wit' rockets and explosive rounds. Dis vicious assault kills da drivuh of da vehicle which cause da crash dat kills the othuh occupant of da cab of da vehicle, your Honuh.

(I had "My Cousin Vinnie" in my brain. I don't know why)   

Murder, Murder, Murder, Murder, Murder, Murder, Murder, Murder, Murder, Murder, Murder...

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

That's for the jury to figure out, buster. 

LOL.  Not only would no jury ever convict Wayne for Talia or Harvey's deaths, no prosecutor would ever charge him for it - assuming the facts of the case are what actually happened.

5 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

What? 

Um, If it pleases da court, your Honuh, You can clearly see da Bat Vigilante unloading on da vehicle wit' rockets and explosive rounds. Dis vicious assault kills da drivuh of da vehicle which cause da crash dat kills the othuh occupant of da cab of da vehicle, your Honuh.

....What's your point?  I said he caused her to crash.  And the "vicious assaults" didn't kill Talia, the crash itself did - which is clearly shown with the conversation she has immediately after the clip you provided. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

11 minutes ago, DMC said:

...What's your point?  I said he caused her to crash.  And the "vicious assaults" didn't kill Talia, the crash itself did - which is clearly shown with the conversation she has immediately after the clip you provided. 

Chasing someone is chasing someone. Chasing someone while you're firing a gun at them is something more I think. You conveniently left out the kinetic aerial assault, which did apparently kill the driver of the truck. Maybe he was just overwhelmed; I don't know.

This is exactly the sort of thing that had CBM film critics and fanboy's heads exploding regarding Bat Man's behavior in BvS, which is the original point I was trying to make.  

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Chasing someone is chasing someone. Chasing someone while you're firing a gun at them is something more I think. You conveniently left out the kinetic aerial assault, which did apparently kill the driver of the truck. Maybe he was just overwhelmed; I don't know.

I "conveniently left it out" because, again, the assault clearly did not cause Talia to die, the crash did.

Anyway, I don't know why you're trying to get so bogged down in minutiae.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but your point seems to be in Harvey and Talia's case Bruce - in Nolanverse parlance - "broke his one rule."  And I'm saying no reasonable person would say that in those two cases.  Indeed, it would have been more far more irresponsible for him NOT to do what he did that led to Harvey and Talia's deaths.

[Jaxom 1974]

Only on Westeros can we find an argument about the legal semantics of murder within a Batman movie in the middle of a Star Wars thread...

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

I "conveniently left it out" because, again, the assault clearly did not cause Talia to die, the crash did.

Anyway, I don't know why you're trying to get so bogged down in minutiae.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but your point seems to be in Harvey and Talia's case Bruce - in Nolanverse parlance - "broke his one rule."  And I'm saying no reasonable person would say that in those two cases.  Indeed, it would have been more far more irresponsible for him NOT to do what he did that led to Harvey and Talia's deaths.

Yup. That's whatever you just said for you.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing Nolan. At. All. He's able to show his hero repeatedly killing people across all three films of his trilogy; but because he growls, "Hurrrrr I have one rule rrrrr", the CBM commentariat, some of them professionals, can't believe the evidence of their own eyes.

I can imagine a conversation on set: 

"I Say, Christian..."

"'Bruce'. My name is 'Bruce'. I'm Batman"

"Splendid. Why don't you say this with line the most over-the-top voice you can muster, Bruce? That way it'll be iconic. And it'll burn it into these idiot's brains and distract from the other stuff."

It's so powerful that it even rewrites the memories of Batman fans so as to erase the pile of corpses from the Burton films. It's The Prestige. Nolan is doing The Prestige but in real life.

The man is a goddamn genius. 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing Nolan. At. All. He's able to show his hero repeatedly killing people across all three films of his trilogy; but because he growls, "Hurrrrr I have one rule rrrrr", the CBM commentariat, some of them professionals, can't believe the evidence of their own eyes.

  When it comes to Harvey and Talia's deaths, "the evidence of their own eyes" plainly shows he was entirely justified if not obligated to do what he did, so I really don't get this complaint other than the obvious "the collateral damage during the action scenes probably killed some red shirt bad guys."

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

  When it comes to Harvey and Talia's deaths, "the evidence of their own eyes" plainly shows he was entirely justified if not obligated to do what he did, so I really don't get this complaint other than the obvious "the collateral damage during the action scenes probably killed some red shirt bad guys."

We agree. "Justifiable homicide".

As for the complaint (more of a comment), I will refer you, for the second time, to my original post on this subject. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

32 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Only on Westeros can we find an argument about the legal semantics of murder within a Batman movie in the middle of a Star Wars thread...

To tie this back to Star Wars, Grand Off Tarkin didn't really kill all those people on Alderaan, did he? He meant to destroy the planet. If there were people on the planet, well that's just incidental, isn't it? Did the Death Star Laser actually cut through a living body before contacting the planet? I'd have to say, "Probably not."

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

As for the complaint (more of a comment), I will refer you, for the second time, to my original post on this subject. 

And I refer you to my original post pointing out you were misrepresenting Wayne's responsibility for the deaths of Harvey and Talia.  I really don't care about whether or not Batfleck is "too violent" or not - that definitely wasn't my problem with the films he was in - and I certainly don't care about the people complaining about that.  But that's no reason to cite Harvey and Talia's deaths as some false equivalency when he did absolutely nothing wrong in those instances.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

 

14 minutes ago, DMC said:

And I refer you to my original post pointing out you were misrepresenting Wayne's responsibility for the deaths of Harvey and Talia.  I really don't care about whether or not Batfleck is "too violent" or not - that definitely wasn't my problem with the films he was in - and I certainly don't care about the people complaining about that.  But that's no reason to cite Harvey and Talia's deaths as some false equivalency when he did absolutely nothing wrong in those instances.

I thought we agreed that those deaths were justifiable homicide. 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 

I thought we agreed that those deaths were justifiable homicide. 

Well, Harvey's at least, sure (as I said earlier, I'm not even sure I'd call Talia's death "homicide").  Which, again, means Bruce wasn't legally responsible and there's no real reason to cite them as an example of Nolan's Batman being overly violent.

[sifth]

So somehow my comment, about comparing the Justice League to Solo has devolved into some weird crap about Batman being a murderer, lol

This place is strange some days.

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

So somehow my comment, about comparing the Justice League to Solo has devolved into some weird crap about Batman being a murderer, lol

This place is strange some days.

It's because "Batman killed too many people!" is one of the only complaints about Batman V. Superman that can be refuted.