Star Wars: Entering an uncivilized era

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

For the third time, "Whether or not it's "justified" is another question."

For the fourth time, it's not.

[IlyaP]

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

That first week of Last Jedis release saw reviews pouring in saying it was the next coming of Jesus! It was the best Star Wars movie ever apparently.

Then people not on the payroll saw the movie and were like ‘er…. What did I just watch??’

I walked out it and thought "Never thought I'd see Rashomon Star Wars. Cool!" (But I'm not as emotionally invested in the series as others, and am easily entertained as I am a child.)

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 

https://media4.giphy.com/media/IDGNYvFLkJKLK/200.gif

The gif that keeps on gifing. 

[IlyaP]

18 minutes ago, Raja said:

I just thinking bringing TLJ into the conversation around why Solo failed is weird, I would blame like 10 other things first before thinking it had anything to do with TLJ.

 

The marketing for this movie was spectacularly inept. You're meant to plan things out and drip feed a certain amount of material a few months before the movie releases, and then do a 2-3 month marathon sprint of new trailers, tv spots, high profile interviews, coverage in print/trades, and world tours. There should be multiple posters of each character, and tie in media across, I dunno, whatever burger joints are popular these days (I go to exactly one place here in Sydney. Is Burger King still around outside Australia these days?), etc. The marketing for Solo might have had micro versions of the above, but it wasn't enough. Not nearly.  Not for a movie of this budget. 

(I work in marketing, so it's one of a very few number of things I can talk about with a reasonable level of intelligence. Yes I said "reasonable"! Stop looking at me like that! )

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

27 minutes ago, DMC said:

For the fourth time, it's not.

'Almost had me. 

[sifth]

It's funny, how I really can't remember my reaction to TLJ. I can remember my reaction to TFA and RoS very clearly, but when I think back to TLJ, I'm just drawing a blank. I know I saw it in the theater with my two close friends, but I can't remember if we liked it or hated it at the time. I remember the internet being in full defensive mode for the film and all sorts of websites making extra articles to defend their reviews of the movie.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

I saw it in the theater was well. There were things I liked and things I didn't. My opinion of it has soured some with re-watches, mainly because I noticed a lot of dumb stuff in it that I didn't catch the first time. I certainly didn't get offended at some of the stuff other people got excited about.

I think Mark Hamill gives the performance of his life in that film. I just didn't recognize the guy he was playing. Not that a grizzled, cynical Luke in his old age is completely out of the question. I just don't see him getting from here to there for the reasons they showed. I especially don't see him doing nothing in response to the news that Han was murdered and his sister is in danger.

I didn't like that they killed off Captain Phasma. In general, Gwendoline Christie was criminally underutilized in that trilogy; especially considering how prominently she featured in the marketing. 

The Canto Byte sequence sticks out like a sore thumb. The Slow speed chase was dumb. And yes, count me among the number that thinks the Haldo maneuver and republic bombers were incredibly stupid. Very cinematic, but problematic for a number of reasons. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I saw it in the theater was well. There were things I liked and things I didn't. My opinion of it has soured some with re-watches,

Rewatches, as in multiple times? Watching TLJ and RoS once was hard enough...

[sifth]

12 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I saw it in the theater was well. There were things I liked and things I didn't. My opinion of it has soured some with re-watches, mainly because I noticed a lot of dumb stuff in it that I didn't catch the first time. I certainly didn't get offended at some of the stuff other people got excited about.

I think Mark Hamill gives the performance of his life in that film. I just didn't recognize the guy he was playing. Not that a grizzled, cynical Luke in his old age is completely out of the question. I just don't see him getting from here to there for the reasons they showed. I especially don't see him doing nothing in response to the news that Han was murdered and his sister is in danger.

I didn't like that they killed off Captain Phasma. In general, Gwendoline Christie was criminally underutilized in that trilogy; especially considering how prominently she featured in the marketing. 

The Canto Byte sequence sticks out like a sore thumb. The Slow speed chase was dumb. And yes, count me among the number that thinks the Haldo maneuver and republic bombers were incredibly stupid. Very cinematic, but problematic for a number of reasons. 

To be honest, I think Benicio Del Toro was the best part of TLJ. The primary reason I like his character, is because he's the only person in the series who states that both the Rebels/Resistance are just as equally bad as the Empire/First Order, when it comes to supporting the war economy. I almost feel like that scene with him is too mature for Star Wars and feels like it's from a much more adult sci-fi series, like Gundam or Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

43 minutes ago, sifth said:

To be honest, I think Benicio Del Toro was the best part of TLJ. The primary reason I like his character, is because he's the only person in the series who states that both the Rebels/Resistance are just as equally bad as the Empire/First Order, when it comes to supporting the war economy. I almost feel like that scene with him is too mature for Star Wars and feels like it's from a much more adult sci-fi series, like Gundam or Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

It could have been interesting if they'd done more with it. Supposedly Rian's trilogy was going to focus on the slave boy on Canto Byte who clearly has force powers (that blink and you'll miss it shot at the end). This suggest they would go back to Canto Byte and explore that world some more. 

Somehow I don't see that happening, unless it's a D+ series; which I might be down for TBH. 

51 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Rewatches, as in multiple times? Watching TLJ and RoS once was hard enough...

Haven't re-watched TroS except for the occasional clip or youtube review. And even TFA loses its appeal after seeing it more than twice IMO. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

37 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

And even TFA loses its appeal after seeing it more than twice IMO. 

Totally agree. I enjoyed it the first time, but heard all the criticism and it was hard not to see them the second time through. Not sure if I've watched it again in full, though I will stop on it now and then just to see where it's at for a moment.

[IlyaP]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Totally agree. I enjoyed it the first time, but heard all the criticism and it was hard not to see them the second time through. Not sure if I've watched it again in full, though I will stop on it now and then just to see where it's at for a moment.

Well, from what we know, Palpatine returned via - *checks notes* - Fortnite?

(Is...is that right? That sounds weird.)

[Kalbear]

This is another part where I just disagree with most folks; TLJ had by far the most things that stuck out for me and I keep remembering of the ST. 

• Leia looking crazy amazing in her more regal General persona stuff
• Most of Luke's humor, from starting with tossing the saber to the 'can you feel it' part to him just being a wiseass to Kylo Ren
• Leia getting sucked out of the ship
• The entire Snoke throne room fight sequence
• Krait and the cool white salt and blood red crystals
• Obviously the amazing lightspeed ram
• Basically all of Luke's sacrifice, from the "MORE" bits to that whole fight and the small details like Luke not kicking up any salt
• Yoda and his great line of 'there is nothing in those books that she does not already possess'
• The fucking gorilla AT-ATs
• Luke taking down the bullshit Jedi, finally

I can remember things from TFA, and can...kinda remember things from TRoS, but nothing really sticks out aside from Kylo freezing blaster shots and Chewie being awesome. 

 

[RumHam]

Ending The Force Awakens in a way that required the next one to pick up immediately was a horrible idea.

I have no problem with Luke rejecting the Jedi Order, but the "toss over the shoulder" thing was lame. I feel like he should have just walked away. Or if he tossed it into the sea and she later pulled it out with the force. It just felt like he was acting out of character, almost trolling her and the audience. Use your words, Luke.

[IlyaP]

19 minutes ago, KalVsWade said:

I can remember things from TFA, and can...kinda remember things from TRoS, but nothing really sticks out aside from Kylo freezing blaster shots and Chewie being awesome. 

 

I confess to really loving that shot of the Good Guy Fleet showing up near the end.

[IlyaP]

1 minute ago, RumHam said:

Use your words, Luke.

That is not the Jedi way. In feelings one must trust, mmm yes.

Something something zen.

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Ending The Force Awakens in a way that required the next one to pick up immediately was a horrible idea.

I have no problem with Luke rejecting the Jedi Order, but the "toss over the shoulder" thing was lame. I feel like he should have just walked away. Or if he tossed it into the sea and she later pulled it out with the force. It just felt like he was acting out of character, almost trolling her and the audience. Use your words, Luke.

I think that's reasonable. At the same time I think that Luke decided to follow in the footsteps of his only real teacher - Yoda. He didn't really have a ton of time with Obi-Wan (and that fucker gaslit him every chance he got), so his only real experience with a real Jedi for any length of time was Yoda. 

And they both went into exile after largely failing the people they taught.

I guess for me Luke being that kind of curmudgeon was definitely different than the Luke we knew, but it was a pretty natural extension of him. That it played into both Rian Johnson's types of humor and Mark Hamill's humor parts was another big win. 

[sifth]

The writing from TFA to TLJ is rather horrible in certain areas. For example Snoke seems like a completely different character in TLJ. I feel this way about Finn as well, who's reduced to little more than a joke character TLJ.

Still nothing is ever topping "somehow Palpatine has returned". Whenever I need a smile on my face, I rewatch that clip on youtube.

[Darryk]

The portrayal of Luke in TLJ really broke my soul and I can't forgive it. The moment he threw his lightsaber over his shoulder, well, for me it just went downhill from there. I heard someone in the cinema yell out "what?!" which is exactly how I felt.

I feel like the franchise can't recover from it. The end of The Mandalorian Season 2, and the episode of Boba Fett, were amazing, but I have to block TLJ from my mind and avoid the fact that's where Luke supposedly ends up.

[Heartofice]

6 hours ago, KalVsWade said:

This is another part where I just disagree with most folks; TLJ had by far the most things that stuck out for me and I keep remembering of the ST. 

• Leia looking crazy amazing in her more regal General persona stuff
• Most of Luke's humor, from starting with tossing the saber to the 'can you feel it' part to him just being a wiseass to Kylo Ren
• Leia getting sucked out of the ship
• The entire Snoke throne room fight sequence
• Krait and the cool white salt and blood red crystals
• Obviously the amazing lightspeed ram
• Basically all of Luke's sacrifice, from the "MORE" bits to that whole fight and the small details like Luke not kicking up any salt
• Yoda and his great line of 'there is nothing in those books that she does not already possess'
• The fucking gorilla AT-ATs
• Luke taking down the bullshit Jedi, finally

I can remember things from TFA, and can...kinda remember things from TRoS, but nothing really sticks out aside from Kylo freezing blaster shots and Chewie being awesome. 

 

This is where people interpret all of these things differently. That very list is also a lot of the same things I remember, but for much more negative reasons.
 

• Leia being mostly wasted in the role
• The humour being completely out of place, to the point of parody. Him drinking green milk is maybe a lower point than Jar Jar treading in shit
• Leias fake death was also a horribly manipulative piece of filmaking, which also bordered on laugh out loud funniness.
• The Snoke fight scene is notorious for its terrible choreography... plus Snoke is completely irrelevant and the movie wrecks his entire reason for existing
• The only thing the lightspeed ram was cause everyone in the audience to go 'duh, well why doesn't everyone do that?!' Really bad writing. It was also in the middle of the slowest chase sequence in history
   

And that stuff doesn't even include the really bad stuff from the movie

• Canto Bight and everything associated with it
• Del Toro's odd characterisation and pointless inclusion
• Turning Finn into some sort of embarrassing comedic relief clown
• Rose
• Holdo
• Killing off Phasma in such a pointless manner
  
   

Theres lots, but yeah its interesting when someone lists out the 'good' stuff in the movie, and it the stuff I would immediately class as poorest bits.