Jump to content

Your Opinions 4: Is GRRM a "bad writer?"


Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

That would depend upon the attitude of the woman’s family, and their power.

Joanna of Naples’ sister was kidnapped by a nobleman, wed to his son, and raped.  Joanna had the entire family hacked into pieces.  Admittedly, killing the husband would end the marriage.  I expect that’s what would happen to Tyrion if he fell into Northern hands.

Which has made me question Tywin's plan to have Tyrion marry Sansa; given the North's attitude towards cripples (the Karstarks said that Bran should kill himself) and the fact that they were never sympathetic towards Sansa (I mean, there is this big Northern conspiracy with multiple branches like Davos recovering Rickon and smuggling Jeyne!Arya out of Winterfell, yet nobody tried to help Sansa at any point), how did Tywin expect the North to go along with his plan to have Tyrion and Sansa rule? They would have been chucked out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Which has made me question Tywin's plan to have Tyrion marry Sansa; given the North's attitude towards cripples (the Karstarks said that Bran should kill himself) and the fact that they were never sympathetic towards Sansa (I mean, there is this big Northern conspiracy with multiple branches like Davos recovering Rickon and smuggling Jeyne!Arya out of Winterfell, yet nobody tried to help Sansa at any point), how did Tywin expect the North to go along with his plan to have Tyrion and Sansa rule? They would have been chucked out.

Well, there seems to be a growing consensus that Tywin’s genius was overrated. But even so, I don’t think there were any plans to take Winterfell until years later, after Sansa presumably had a son. He planned on taking WF through a Stark-Lannister grandchild, not Tyrion himself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Which has made me question Tywin's plan to have Tyrion marry Sansa; given the North's attitude towards cripples (the Karstarks said that Bran should kill himself) and the fact that they were never sympathetic towards Sansa (I mean, there is this big Northern conspiracy with multiple branches like Davos recovering Rickon and smuggling Jeyne!Arya out of Winterfell, yet nobody tried to help Sansa at any point), how did Tywin expect the North to go along with his plan to have Tyrion and Sansa rule? They would have been chucked out.

I expect Tywin intended to throw the Freys to the Northmen, to sweeten the pill.

He would shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover they had murdered his good-daughter’s mother and brother.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 5/21/2022 at 1:14 PM, SeanF said:

I expect Tywin intended to throw the Freys to the Northmen, to sweeten the pill.

He would shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover they had murdered his good-daughter’s mother and brother.

Admittedly he hasn't liked them for 50 years since Tytos chose to have Genna marry Emmon. 10 years old, and already speaking out against his father in public.

Edited by Angel Eyes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Am I the only one who finds it a little silly that some of the Freys went North with Roose? They must have known everyone would hate them. Were they honestly expecting Roose of all people to keep them safe, lol

Their story about how Robb turned into a wolf and tried to attack everyone and the RW was just them defending themselves, is equally stupid. Did they really expect people to believe that?

Edited by sifth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sifth said:

Am I the only one who finds it a little silly that some of the Freys went North with Roose? They must have known everyone would hate them. Were they honestly expecting Roose of all people to keep them safe, lol

Their story about how Robb turned into a wolf and tried to attack everyone and the RW was just them defending themselves, is equally stupid. Did they really expect people to believe that?

They think the Northmen are cowed, and they’re protected by Kings Landing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

They think the Northmen are cowed, and they’re protected by Kings Landing.

Yea, but they could have come up with a much better lie. Telling that story is just asking people to kill them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, sifth said:

Yea, but they could have come up with a much better lie. Telling that story is just asking people to kill them.

The Freys aren't the sharpest tools in the drawer.

A really intelligent man would never have carried out something like the Red Wedding.  All that Walder Frey did was to make his family hated, while gaining nothing that he could not have gained by more honourable means.  Walder could easily have broken off his alliance with Robb Stark, once Robb married Jeyne Westerling, and would have been welcomed back into the fold by Kings Landing.

Just as importantly, his conduct would have been considered entirely reasonable by most of his peers, other than the most fierce Stark and Tully partisans.  Robb put himself in the wrong, by breaking his promise to Walder Frey.  But the latter forfeited the moral high ground by violating the most solemn taboos, by murdering wedding guests. As a result, his family is utterly despised, and without allies, save allies of convenience who will have no qualms about discarding them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, sifth said:

Am I the only one who finds it a little silly that some of the Freys went North with Roose? They must have known everyone would hate them.

No different then the Riverlands.

They're in the game now like a queen of thornes, its sink or swim time

3 hours ago, sifth said:

Their story about how Robb turned into a wolf and tried to attack everyone and the RW was just them defending themselves, is equally stupid. Did they really expect people to believe that?

Of course not. Dude grinning ear to ear like some type of Tyrion. It's a fun story, but in no way is to be believed, everyone knows what time it is

17 minutes ago, SeanF said:

 Walder could easily have broken off his alliance with Robb Stark, once Robb married Jeyne Westerling, and would have been welcomed back into the fold by Kings Landing.

Just as importantly, his conduct would have been considered entirely reasonable by most of his peers, other than the most fierce Stark and Tully partisans.  

I'd expect Tywin to demand a show of loyalty like he did when Karstark pretends to join Stannis or how Cersei needed Wyman to execute Davos.

Walder Frey was out in an uncomfortable situation where he had a miniscule amount of options that would support the longevity of his house. He chose wrong

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do we ever hear what Roose Bolton’s reaction to Tyrion marrying Sansa was? Shouldn’t that have been a dead giveaway that the Lannisters would betray him eventually? They wed the heir to Winterfell to a Lannister. Even if fArya hadn’t been fake, she was still the younger sister.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Do we ever hear what Roose Bolton’s reaction to Tyrion marrying Sansa was? Shouldn’t that have been a dead giveaway that the Lannisters would betray him eventually? They wed the heir to Winterfell to a Lannister. Even if fArya hadn’t been fake, she was still the younger sister.

Isn't it implied that Roose plans to betray the Lannisters at some point? It might have been Lady Dustin who tells it to Theon at some point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, sifth said:

Isn't it implied that Roose plans to betray the Lannisters at some point? It might have been Lady Dustin who tells it to Theon at some point.

I don't remember. I'm planning on doing a combined re-read of the last two books soon, but I've always had trouble with ADWD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don't remember. I'm planning on doing a combined re-read of the last two books soon, but I've always had trouble with ADWD.

She says something like he would like to be king too if he could, not just warden of the north. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, sifth said:

Am I the only one who finds it a little silly that some of the Freys went North with Roose? They must have known everyone would hate them. Were they honestly expecting Roose of all people to keep them safe, lol

The Freys tasted a bit of power and it has clearly gone over their heads.

 

5 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Do we ever hear what Roose Bolton’s reaction to Tyrion marrying Sansa was?

It's not like he had that much of a choice anyway.

 

3 hours ago, sifth said:

Isn't it implied that Roose plans to betray the Lannisters at some point? It might have been Lady Dustin who tells it to Theon at some point.

Nope, she tells him that the Lannisters are weak because all the main ones, she clearly doesn't know Kevan, are dead, gone or crippled, and that it's a nice time to go rogue. It's the same reasoning Wyman Manderly uses to go yolo on the Freys amd it's also the only reason the Golden Company backs Connington's adventure.

Had Tywin been alive, well none would have dared to cross him.

 

 

 

Edited by frenin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/19/2022 at 5:35 PM, butterweedstrover said:

He would never do some so disastrous to Tyrion's reputation as having him seriously harm Penny or something. 

Those sound like famous last words.

I'm quoting it for future reference. Because I definitely think Tyrion is going to seriously harm Penny. He's lost his temper (which is remarkably short post-Tywin) several times with her. In the Winds Tyrion sample chapter, he is about to fly into a rage and attack Penny but he gets distracted by the arrival of the Ironborn.

Penny might just be a plot device (aka women in refrigerators) for Tyrion's descent into villainy.

On 5/20/2022 at 12:24 AM, SeanF said:

Tyrion has crossed lines, IMHO.  Whatever his ending, I think he’ll have few qualms about massacring civilians in pursuit of his revenge.  Book Tyrion would laugh to see Kings Landing go up in flames.

I agree it’s easier to excuse Tyrion for raping an anonymous slave than it would be had he raped 12 year old Sansa, but I’m not sure that it ought to be.

I just think it's strange how people feel like Tyrion is still a good guy and will end the series as a good guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Those sound like famous last words.

I'm quoting it for future reference. Because I definitely think Tyrion is going to seriously harm Penny. He's lost his temper (which is remarkably short post-Tywin) several times with her. In the Winds Tyrion sample chapter, he is about to fly into a rage and attack Penny but he gets distracted by the arrival of the Ironborn.

Penny might just be a plot device (aka women in refrigerators) for Tyrion's descent into villainy.

I just think it's strange how people feel like Tyrion is still a good guy and will end the series as a good guy.

We’ve discussed the possibility that ultimately he’s Iago to Jon and Dany.  Perhaps this is a series (if completed) where evil wins.

My own view of the show is that something close to evil won.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Ran locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...