Top Gun 2: Greatest Cinematic Event of the New Millennium

[Veltigar]

Thanks for the sources @Ran and @Deadlines? What Deadlines? they do look pretty neat. Just more sources to tell me what I already knew, that Top Gun 2 is damn great  

[DMC]

Hanging out with my sister and brother-in-law this evening I ended up watching this because the latter has a much more open mind than I do.  My gods what an absolute piece of shit this movie is.  I can't imagine what happened to you Gen Xers where this gets you all nostalgic - granted it had to be hard growing up in the 80s - but JFC.  Are you worried about your Thetan levels?

The premise, or "mission," is insanely stupid.  The characterization boils down to "I'm mad my dad died and you were there."  The only redeeming quality was Jennifer Connelly still looks great at 50.  Oh, and I was glad to see Jon Hamm in something other than Apple commercials, but this was kinda a step down from that.  Seriously I'll never understand what happened to you people where Tom Cruise jacking himself off is something you long for.  Reaganism must've had a hell of an effect.

[Mexal]

If you think Roosters characterization is about his dad dying with Mav being there then I think you purposely chose not to watch the movie given that wasn’t his issue at all. 

[polishgenius]

8 hours ago, DMC said:

 I can't imagine what happened to you Gen Xers where this gets you all nostalgic -

 

 

I was two months old when the first Top Gun came out, thus empirically proving it has nothing to do with nostalgia and you must just have weird taste in movies. 

[Mexal]

9 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

 

I was two months old when the first Top Gun came out, thus empirically proving it has nothing to do with nostalgia and you must just have weird taste in movies. 

I was 2 years old. I didn’t see it until the 90s and don’t remember enough of the 80s to be nostalgic about it.

[Winterfell is Burning]

I did watch the original many years after it was released, and I thought it was garbage.

[DMC]

9 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

 

I was two months old when the first Top Gun came out, thus empirically proving it has nothing to do with nostalgia and you must just have weird taste in movies. 

Or it just means I wasn't referring to you.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

I was thirteen when Top Gun came out. I remember thinking Tom Cruise and Kelly McGillis must be riddled with AIDS with all that sweaty French kissing going on.

We still didn't know much about AIDS in 1986.

[Rhom]

19 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I was thirteen when Top Gun came out. I remember thinking Tom Cruise and Kelly McGillis must be riddled with AIDS with all that sweaty French kissing going on.

We still didn't know much about AIDS in 1986.

Probably got it from sitting on an infected toilet seat.

[Raja]

21 hours ago, DMC said:

The premise, or "mission," is insanely stupid. 

This I agree with.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

It looks like my estimate was too conservative. I underestimated the Labor Day weekends potential to juice box office receipts. Top Gun: Maverick has topped Black Panther domestically. 

[DMC]

I'm still wondering how anyone can watch this piece of shit movie and not think Rooster blamed Cruise for his father's death.

[Veltigar]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

I'm still wondering how anyone can watch this piece of shit movie and not think Rooster blamed Cruise for his father's death.

Because the film literally states that Rooster was pissed at Maverick for having blocked his career as a naval aviator (unknown to rooster on the request of his own terminally ill mother), thereby costing him four years? This isn't subtext you know. You can't blame the film for you not paying attention  

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Because the film literally states that Rooster was pissed at Maverick for having blocked his career as a naval aviator (unknown to rooster on the request of his own terminally ill mother), thereby costing him four years? This isn't subtext you know. You can't blame the film for you not paying attention  

You're right that I didn't pay that close attention once I confirmed it was just a Cruise vanity project.  But please stop telling me Rooster's resentment wasn't rooted in his father's death.  I wasn't that distracted by my niece crawling around and being adorable, it's absurd.

[Veltigar]

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

You're right that I didn't pay that close attention once I confirmed it was just a Cruise vanity project.  But please stop telling me Rooster's resentment wasn't rooted in his father's death.  I wasn't that distracted by my niece crawling around and being adorable, it's absurd.

Ah, playing the niece card I see  I'll accept it. Unfortunately since the important scenes are talky and not feature any jets, it is hard to find them on YouTube. This weirdly put together clip (the part from 00.00-00.32) is the key to understanding Rooster's real reason for resenting Maverick:

Before Maverick's intervention, it seems that the relationship between Rooster and Maverick was pretty good. Probably like a surrogate father. It's only after Maverick blocks his path to the Academy and Rooster's mother dies that he starts resenting Maverick. He knows he can hurt Maverick by referring to his father's passing, so that creates a heady mix of feelings for resentment, hurt and anger to grow.

It's actually rather well done emotionally speaking  

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

This weirdly put together clip (the part from 00.00-00.32) is the key to understanding Rooster's real reason for resenting Maverick:

...and the last 13 seconds of that clip directly contradict your argument.  Which is my point.  It's a boring conflict obviously playing off his father's death that yields little to no characterization for anybody but Tom Cruise being awesome and everyone else in the movie just not understanding how awesome he is.

[Veltigar]

14 minutes ago, DMC said:

...and the last 13 seconds of that clip directly contradict your argument.  Which is my point.  It's a boring conflict obviously playing off his father's death that yields little to no characterization for anybody but Tom Cruise being awesome and everyone else in the movie just not understanding how awesome he is.

Yeah, that clip is weirdly cut for some reason. I could post some more scenes where Maverick explains to Penny why he blocked Rooster's ambitions or the scene where he tells Rooster he's ready for the mission and so on, but I think that seed would be planted in barren ground :p 

Also, pretty much every character in the film thinks Maverick is awesome. The only ones who don't are the drone reaper, John Hamm, Rooster and perhaps Maverick himself at some points.

It's also clearly shown throughout the film that Maverick struggles with his responsibilities and his legacy. That he hurt Penny in the past and that he really isn't perfect. He's flawed and struggles with it, but he does his best to overcome it, which eventually works out for him.

Again, I'm probably not getting through, but you are not doing the film much credit. This is a Tom Cruise vanity project, but it is a lot more subtle. That's one of the main reasons why it is so incredibly successful.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Veltigar said:

Again, I'm probably not getting through, but you are not doing the film much credit.

I've been surprised by how much I've liked some of the recent Mission Impossible movies (I can't keep track of which).  That's partially why I gave this a chance - it seemed to me Cruise had figured out how to make action movies that actually interest me.  It didn't work.  And it wasn't just me, it was all four of us Mystery Science Theater'ing this throughout.  Particularly the premise/mission, which is objectively idiotic.  Obviously everyone has different tastes, but this was shit and I feel comfortable calling it shit after giving it a legit chance.

[Mexal]

On 9/7/2022 at 4:53 AM, DMC said:

...and the last 13 seconds of that clip directly contradict your argument.  Which is my point.  It's a boring conflict obviously playing off his father's death that yields little to no characterization for anybody but Tom Cruise being awesome and everyone else in the movie just not understanding how awesome he is.

Jesus man. Literally the movie tells you over and over it's not about his death. Rooster tells the chick that Mav blocked his path and that's his issue with him. Mav tells Penny that he blocked Rooster's path and that's why he dislikes him. Rooster tells Mav that he stood in his way and held back his career. I mean, it's literally said 3 times in 3 different scenes and yet you still keep believing that it's entirely about Mav being in the plane when Goose died. Yes, it's tied to his death ultimately because it was a dying wish of Rooster's mom but come on, it's not about the fact that Mav was there with Goose when he died. Not a clue why you keep telling us it is.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Mexal

[DMC]

3 hours ago, Mexal said:

it's not about the fact that Mav was there with Goose when he died.

No, I don't literally think the character was stewing for years solely because he was there when he died.  That was rather apparent exaggeration that you amusingly got hyper defensive about and in the process tried to act like his father's death wasn't a huge part of his resentment.