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Missing info from the F&B I era and Ran just giving us the post-Torrhen Stark lineage


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Two part post:

 

First, just wondering why @Ran randomly gave us that info when he did and what other minor tidbits he's sitting on that he could similarly talk about.

Second part: assuming the book is closed on the 2BC - 136AC time period covered in F&B I (barring any tidbits of discussion the characters might have about it in Winds or Dream), what would have liked to have seen expanded upon from that time period? A few of mine:

- As an enormous Kingsguard nerd, I would have loved some more exploits about the founding seven members and the ways in which the order developed in the early decades. As a sidebar to that, I'm really curious as to who the Lord Commander of Maegor's final seven was. It's super weird to me that their names and fates are all detailed, but we don't get that.

- Martin specifically mentions the Tourney of the Field of Roses in the World Book, a tourney at Highgarden that was the most splendid tourney of its generation during the reign of Jaehaerys, but it's not mentioned at all in F&B. Especially weird given how much Martin loves expounding on tourneys. 

- I really would have liked more about the broad unrest in the North following the Conquest, presumably spearheaded by Brandon Snow and leading to the formation of the Company of the Rose. I would also liked to know why they were named that. 

- More about the Night's Watch. Considering how much time we spend with the Night's Watch in the main series, it's weird that they're generally absent from the histories with a few exceptions. 

- Even though the kingdom was in a bit of upheaval at the time with Baelon's death, Ryam Redwyne's Handship and J+A's declining health, I feel like there would have been some big celebration to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Aegon's Conquest. Maybe Martin can do something similar for the 200th anniversary during Daeron II's reign. 

Speaking of Ryam Redwyne, I was borderline flabbergasted by how Martin glosses over him in F&B. The present day novels consider him one of the greatest knights in history and he was in the Kingsguard for 45 years, but the only thing we hear about him was that he won some tourneys. I've wondered if Martin originally intended to give him Gyles Morrigen's backstory but realized that would make him too old to still be around during the latter part of Jaehaerys' reign. 

So yeah, I'll probably think of some more, but fire away. 

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16 hours ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

Speaking of Ryam Redwyne, I was borderline flabbergasted by how Martin glosses over him in F&B. The present day novels consider him one of the greatest knights in history and he was in the Kingsguard for 45 years, but the only thing we hear about him was that he won some tourneys. I've wondered if Martin originally intended to give him Gyles Morrigen's backstory but realized that would make him too old to still be around during the latter part of Jaehaerys' reign. 

Both of them actually were Faceless Men (i.e. - they were "replaced" by FM, same as Pate at the Citadel), so that's why GRRM in F&B ommited to give a more detailed info about either of them, because FM being in the Kingsguard is an ongoing mystery/secret of ASOIAF.

P.S. You can find more info on this topic in the link in my signature -> The Iron Shell threads.

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21 hours ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

- As an enormous Kingsguard nerd, I would have loved some more exploits about the founding seven members and the ways in which the order developed in the early decades. As a sidebar to that, I'm really curious as to who the Lord Commander of Maegor's final seven was. It's super weird to me that their names and fates are all detailed, but we don't get that.

I do agree that it is very sad we don't get any further information on the original KG, nor how they died heroically. It would have also been interesting to see if any (and who) of the original Seven lived into the reigns of Aenys and Maegor.

I think FaB gives some kind of information as to who may have been LC under Maegor. First we hear that Maegor charges Ser Davos Darklyn of the Kingsguard with the KL contingent in the campaign against Aegon the Uncrowned. This could but doesn't have to imply that he was LC since such a command would likely go to the Lord Commander.

That Jaehaerys I doesn't seem to deal with a Lord Commander of the KG in 48 AC could also imply that Owen Bush was Maegor's last LC and that suicidal Maegor just did get around to naming a new one after Bush's corpse was found.

21 hours ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

- Martin specifically mentions the Tourney of the Field of Roses in the World Book, a tourney at Highgarden that was the most splendid tourney of its generation during the reign of Jaehaerys, but it's not mentioned at all in F&B. Especially weird given how much Martin loves expounding on tourneys.

Yes, that's kind of sad. One imagines it took place in the later years of his reign, perhaps when the Tyrells celebrated a big event - say, the wedding of Manfryd Redwyne's heir to a daughter of Martyn Tyrell.

But it is a pity, since that tourney could also have been the event where either Aemon or Baelon received their spurs as knights.

21 hours ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

- I really would have liked more about the broad unrest in the North following the Conquest, presumably spearheaded by Brandon Snow and leading to the formation of the Company of the Rose. I would also liked to know why they were named that.

Well, the absence of information about the reign of the Conqueror is one of the big flaws of the book. What we get isn't even a good summary - and it is the same with the reign of Viserys I.

21 hours ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

- More about the Night's Watch. Considering how much time we spend with the Night's Watch in the main series, it's weird that they're generally absent from the histories with a few exceptions.

It is kind of curious that Jaehaerys I apparently never visited the Wall. At least not during that original visit to Winterfell. I'd have expected that both the Conqueror and the Old King were at the Wall, if only to see that great structure for themselves. And while the dragonriders were still around other Targaryens could have visited as well, even as late as the reign of Viserys I. Daemon could have been there, for instance, and Rhaenyra as well.

21 hours ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

- Even though the kingdom was in a bit of upheaval at the time with Baelon's death, Ryam Redwyne's Handship and J+A's declining health, I feel like there would have been some big celebration to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Aegon's Conquest. Maybe Martin can do something similar for the 200th anniversary during Daeron II's reign. 

Since the celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Conquest, there should also have been a celebration of the 100th. That said - Princess Gael died in 99 AC and Queen Alysanne herself in 100 AC. If the date for such a celebration would have been at the end of the year then the blow dealt to the Old King by Alysanne may have either led to the cancellation of the festivities or turned what should have been a celebration into a very sad affair.

But, of course, the later reign of Jaehaerys and Alysanne isn't covered that well, and especially the troubles of the later years as well as the appointment of certain Hands and councillors should have been covered in greater detail. We also had no idea who suggested Otto Hightower as Hand to Jaehaerys I, for instance.

21 hours ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

Speaking of Ryam Redwyne, I was borderline flabbergasted by how Martin glosses over him in F&B. The present day novels consider him one of the greatest knights in history and he was in the Kingsguard for 45 years, but the only thing we hear about him was that he won some tourneys. I've wondered if Martin originally intended to give him Gyles Morrigen's backstory but realized that would make him too old to still be around during the latter part of Jaehaerys' reign. 

That is sad, too, a kind of consequence on George skipping over most of the later reign. One also gets the feeling that Jonquil Darke is going to something of importance - say, save Alysanne or one of her daughters from some assassination attempt - and then she just doesn't do anything of note at all.

I guess for them to feature more there should have been another significant war - perhaps a naval war with Braavos, after all - over the dragon eggs and stuff - where they could have shown off their prowess.

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The North had been in unrest against their new overlords ever since Aegon's Conquest. The Company of the Rose was made out of Northerners who refused to follow Targaryen rule. They were against a new Gift land for the Night's Watch as they had already shaped the political landscape of the North.

Ultimately the Northerners made up most of the rebel army in Robert's Rebellion, because of Aerys executing Brandon and Rickard

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  • 2 weeks later...

Another one I just thought of: the Dragonkeepers. Kind of surprised they didn't play a bigger role in the Storming of the Dragonpit. 

Also curious to know what their structure/responsibilities were like. I'm assuming their duties didn't also extend to like, feeding the dragons and mucking out their stables, etc. Were they purely guards? Did they have to be knights? Did they continue to exist after the Dance for the 20 odd years that there were still dragons?

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