MCU Multi-thread of Marvels

[SpaceChampion]

7 hours ago, mormont said:

Going back to Ms Marvel for a sec, I think the theory that her heirloom bracelet is a Nega-Band and the mysterious grandmother that was hinted at indicates some Kree ancestry seems to be pretty unassailable. Provides her with a nice link to Captain Marvel and a lead-in for The Marvels. And yet the bracelet is part of her comic costume, so it all hangs together.

Inhumans were created by the Kree too, so it's possible she's still one, but Feige might not want to have widespread terigenesis yet in the MCU, so the band is an alternate way to activate.

I've wondered if the Eternals would have tried preventing the Inhumans from activating, but now with the Eternals gone rogue, the Inhuman royal family might think they have free reign to create an army.

[Jaxom 1974]

41 minutes ago, RumHam said:

come to think of it, there were no obvious aliens at avenger con! They saved half of life everywhere.

I just want one movie or show to acknowledge that a major galactic event happened on earth and you'd think that like, we'd have joined the galactic community at some point during those five years and be working towards Star Trek type stuff. United earth and all that.

Gamora and Drax weren't enough for you?

[DMC]

4 hours ago, RumHam said:

you'd think that like, we'd have joined the galactic community at some point during those five years and be working towards Star Trek type stuff.

Apparently they're still pissed about all the shit that went down after that pinewood derby...

 

[mormont]

7 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Inhumans were created by the Kree too, so it's possible she's still one, but Feige might not want to have widespread terigenesis yet in the MCU, so the band is an alternate way to activate.

Well now you're raising the canonicity of Agents of SHIELD, and that way madness lies. Or at least a silly argument.

But the thing is, if we accept that AOS isn't canon, and that Marvel would rather we all forget the Inhumans TV series ever happened, the Nega-Bands are (as noted) a much better way to tie Kamala to Carol and make sense of why she takes the Ms. Marvel name and winds up in a 'Marvels' movie. Terrigenesis is unnecessary in this equation and only complicates things.

[Rhom]

29 minutes ago, mormont said:

and that Marvel would rather we all forget the Inhumans TV series ever happened

And yet… (Dr Strange 2 spoilers)

Spoiler

They had Anson Mount playing Black Bolt in Multiverse of Madness

I think we can firmly consider both AOS and Inhumans as canon; but elsewhere in the multiverse.

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Rhom said:

I think we can firmly consider both AOS and Inhumans as canon; but elsewhere in the multiverse.

It's Schrodinger's canon.

[Jaxom 1974]

This is great...

 

[Rhom]

Had a couple hours free the other night and on a whim decided to watch Dark Phoenix.  Pretty solid example of making a movie by boardroom conference.  

Its amazing to me that after a pretty decent reboot to the franchise with First Class and then a pretty good attempt to tie them together with DoFP, they then just royally screwed things up with Apocalypse and Phoenix.   

Since I was in a mood to punish myself apparently... I went looking for New Mutants, but it was nowhere to be found on Disney+.  The IMDB app tells me its on HBO Max.  Why the hell is that?  None of this Fox acquisition makes sense to me. 

[Rhom]

I just went back and read through the old X-men thread from 2018-2019 thinking I'd get some DP discussion... but it was apparently all pre-release.  Maybe there's a spoiler thread archived here somewhere.

The thing that I was interested in was a parallel between what people said they wanted with Jean and what we just got with Wanda.

Much of the discussion was how the DP story would not feel "earned" because we did not have time to get to know Sophie's Jean Grey and build the relationships for her and the other X people.  Someone suggested basically "what if they built her up over 20 movies like they did Thanos and then had her turn suddenly as the big bad."  Kinda similar to what we got with Wanda watching her grow and develop as a member of the team.  Falling in love with Vision.  Losing everything.  Going universe shattering crazy.

[DMC]

16 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Much of the discussion was how the DP story would not feel "earned" because we did not have time to get to know Sophie's Jean Grey and build the relationships for her and the other X people.  Someone suggested basically "what if they built her up over 20 movies like they did Thanos and then had her turn suddenly as the big bad."  Kinda similar to what we got with Wanda watching her grow and develop as a member of the team.  Falling in love with Vision.  Losing everything.  Going universe shattering crazy.

I don't think the problem with Dark Phoenix - or the Last Stand for that matter - was in a lack of buildup.  It was purely in a lack of quality execution.  Hell, the buildup at the end of X2 was perfect IMO, I was REALLY excited for dark phoenix in the next movie..until I saw the next movie.

But to your broader point, yes, I think how they did Wanda is pretty similar to how we'd get, or should expect, dark phoenix in the MCU.  And again, the problem there wasn't the build-up, but I'm still personally deeply disappointed in its execution if all we get is her turn in Doctor Strange 2.

[mormont]

3 hours ago, Rhom said:

Its amazing to me that after a pretty decent reboot to the franchise with First Class

First Class is not as good as most folks remember. It's pretty weak, IMO. A couple of very good acting performances, but the writing, ugh.

[Heartofice]

First Class is a bit of a mess. 
 

I think the reason is it was meant to be Magneto: Origins but they shit themselves when Wolverine turned out to be such a disaster and retuned the concept.

Thats why I think half the movie is quite good, but the other half is unengaging nonsense.

[DMC]

I thought First Class was pretty good.  Most importantly, McAvoy and Fassbender nailed young Xavier and Erik.  And Days of Future Past was a very fun next offering.  Definitely say those two deserve to be called "a pretty decent reboot" after the bad taste of Last Stand.

[polishgenius]

I do like First Class, but I think the time pressure it was made under does show- Matthew Vaughn redid the script when he was hired in May 2010, meaning there were essentially 13 months from pre-production to release, and filming didn't actually finish till the end of April for a film that came out in June because they had to re-do the entire ending (it's not clear if that was the change that resulted because of Inception beating it to a revolving rooms concept, or if they actually changed it twice).   

 

 

 

[sifth]

I liked First Class, but man does the CGI for that film look bad, in the climax in particular. James Mcavoy and Michael Fassbender just had such amazing chemistry though. I just loved every scene with the two of them together. I liked Jennifer Lawrence in that film as well, it's just a shame that all of the sequels sort of ruin her characters arc.

[SpaceChampion]

2nd episode of Ms. Marvel is delightful too.

Spoiler

If Kamala and Kamran are not Inhumans I'll be surprised.

 

[RumHam]

Delightful was exactly the word I was going to use.

Spoiler

One thing I thought was funny though, why the hell were the federal agents so baffled as to where she went at the end? Did I miss something and it was an invisible car that picked her up?

 

[Werthead]

On 6/11/2022 at 11:55 PM, mormont said:

Well now you're raising the canonicity of Agents of SHIELD, and that way madness lies. Or at least a silly argument.

But the thing is, if we accept that AOS isn't canon, and that Marvel would rather we all forget the Inhumans TV series ever happened, the Nega-Bands are (as noted) a much better way to tie Kamala to Carol and make sense of why she takes the Ms. Marvel name and winds up in a 'Marvels' movie. Terrigenesis is unnecessary in this equation and only complicates things.

Silly arguments are where I live!

I think Agents of SHIELD itself let the idea simmer that they broke away from the mainline MCU timeline at the end of Season 5 (when they altered history) and the last two seasons are in a timeline where the Snap and Blip never happened, but before that they were in the main timeline.

However, that was always a hard sell because Season 2 had the Terrigenesis explosion and Seasons 3-5 were deeply concerned with the rise of Inhumans around the world, with it causing a global security crisis. The idea that would be ignored in the main MCU always felt kind of a stretch.

I think they're probably leaning towards all of Agents of SHIELD and Inhumans (and possibly Agent Carter) taking place in an adjacent timeline where maybe the same characters exist in the MCU but some events happened and some did not. If they were going to canonise Agents of SHIELD or even give it a shout-out, they had a golden opportunity in Loki (revisiting Coulson's death) which they missed.

For that matter they still haven't given a firm answer on the canonicity of the Netflix shows either. We've seen some of the same actors show up, but absolutely zero information on if the shows themselves still happened.

[polishgenius]

5 minutes ago, Werthead said:

We've seen some of the same actors show up, but absolutely zero information on if the shows themselves still happened.

 

While not 100% proof I still think that Kingpin's appearance in Hawkeye doesn't square fully with the Netflix shows because he's quite a notable public figure by the end of season 1 so going back to whispers of mystery around his identity doesn't really make sense if they're fully canon.

[SpaceChampion]

Spoiler