Jump to content

What about Jeyne Westerling?


Odej
 Share

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Martin said we're gonna hear about her, she'll be on The Winds of Winter's prologue and this makes some people believe she is gonna die, cause this is what happens on POV prologues on asoiaf. But we have no sure she will be the prologue's POV and I don't believe Martin would bring her back to the story to kill her so quikly so, what is going to be her plot? What can she still give to the story?

Edited by Odej
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the Prologue will take place at Casterly Rock, with the POV of someone living there.  We will get an update on events in the Westlands and Westeros in general.  At some point, Forley Prester will arrive with Jeyne and Edmure in tow.

I have seen speculation about a rescue attempt being made.  If so, it would probably be unsuccessful.  I doubt the BwB has enough men available to succeed, especially on such short notice, plus they will be inside the Westlands quickly.  And Prester has a lot of men with him. 

As Robb's widow, Jeyne is in a good position to stir up a lot of trouble if she wants.  She could wave the bloody shirt, so to say, of her martyred husband to rally the Riverlands to oppose the Lannisters and their Frey allies even more than they already are.  Jaime told Prester she might be even more dangerous than Edmure.  He may be right. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Nevets said:

I have seen speculation about a rescue attempt being made.  If so, it would probably be unsuccessful.  I doubt the BwB has enough men available to succeed, especially on such short notice, plus they will be inside the Westlands quickly.  And Prester has a lot of men with him. 

I don't know if that's necessarily true. There's a lot of men with Prester, sure, but there are also a lot of enemies in the Riverlands right now. Lady Stoneheart is brazen enough to hang the heir to House Frey just a day's ride from the Twins. Not to mention the fact that Tom O'Sevenstreams has infiltrated Riverrun. Everyone has suspected that Stoneheart's got a serious revenge brewing against who knows how many people will be at Daven Lannister's wedding. And that's before even mentioning all the people still unaccounted for. We've got Nymeria and her hundred-strong wolf pack raising hell, a whole faction of the Brotherhood Without Banners that's disappeared, Brynden "Blackfish" Tully gone to ground, and an untold number of broken men who used to be with Robb Stark's army. If all these factions can combine, then they might have a chance to save Jeyne and Edmure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Odej said:

Martin said we're gonna hear about her, she'll be on The Winds of Winter's prologue and this makes some people believe she is gonna die, cause this is what happens on POV prologues on asoiaf. But we have no sure she will be the prologue's POV and I don't believe Martin would bring her back to the story to kill her so quikly so, what is going to be her plot? What can she still give to the story?

A baby, even if it's not Robb's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The literary clues tell me that Jeyne is going to be at the center of a "Revenge of the Reynes" subplot. The other Jeyne Westerling was a Tarbek widow, courted by a Lannister, but forced to marry Maegor i. Her only living child was a Tarbek boy. She was impregnated by Maegor but had a stillborn, premature, monstrous birth after being poisoned (so we are told) by Tyanna of the Tower, another wife of Maegor. 

The Tarbek heir from the earlier Jeyne Westerling and the fact that this Jeyne's uncle, Rolph Spicer, was made lord of Castamere, are the biggest Reyne associations.

The fact that The Reynes of Castamere song is the signal for the attack at the Red Wedding is probably also important. Jeyne tells Catelyn that she expects to bear twins for Robb and they will name then Eddard and Brandon. We know what will happen to Robb at the twins.

Catelyn then says that maybe there will also be a child named Hoster. This seems significant to me because we always suspect GRRM is dropping us a clue when something happens in a cluster of three: three imaginary sons for Robb are a clue about Jeyne, I think. Or about the qualities that Robb will take when he is reborn. The Hoster allusion probably tells us about something river-related. Since Robb and Catelyn both die at The Twins and Catelyn is reborn in the river, the discussion of the three imaginary heirs may be foreshadowing about Catelyn's rebirth.

Quote

When the girl had gone, Catelyn turned back to her father and smoothed the thin white hair across his brow. "An Eddard and a Brandon," she sighed softly. "And perhaps in time a Hoster. Would you like that?" He did not answer, but she had never expected that he would. As the sound of the rain on the roof mingled with her father's breathing, she thought about Jeyne. The girl did seem to have a good heart, just as Robb had said. And good hips, which might be more important. (Storm, Catelyn III)

This phrase seems significant to me, telling us that the rain and Lord Tully's breathing have mingled, and that the combination leads to Jeyne. We know that the Tarbeks and the Reynes were killed by Tywin who threw the Tarbek heir in a well and drowned the Reynes with a river. If I'm reading the clues correctly, I think this union of Jeyne with Robb may be a "What's dead can never die" situation, where the rain and House Tully (trout, rivers) combine to become immune to drowning. (Jeyne's brother is also presumed dead after the Red Wedding, and his bloody trail led to the same river where Catelyn's body was thrown. So he might be another "ingredient" in the river soup that will eventually produce Lady Stoneheart.) 

Instead of an Eddard and a Brandon, I think we are going to see Edmure and Brynden as the "heirs" of Robb. Catelyn, who later sleeps in Hoster's river bed, may be the "thin white" heir of Hoster who completes the trio. 

There are other little clues about revenge on the Lannisters that GRRM may have attached to Jeyne Westerling. We know that Tywin threw the Tarbek heir in a well and that Cersei pushed Melara Hetherspoon down a well. Here's what Robb says about his reasons for marrying Jeyne:

Quote

"Jeyne is bright as well as beautiful. And kind as well. She has a gentle heart." (Storm, Catelyn II)

I realize that "well" is a common word, but it seems significant that Robb uses it twice to describe Jeyne. I think this is an indirect way to say that Jeyne might represent the Lannister victims emerging from the wells. I believe that well / wall is a wordplay pair in ASOIAF, so it's significant to have characters coming from wells to compare to characters associated with walls. 

Even if Jeyne is not literally pregnant, I think there are other ways a character can become an heir. I think Jeyne may represent Robb's heir. 

My prediction is that she will somehow join forces with Lady Stoneheart and the BwB to go after the Freys and Lannisters, maybe the Boltons. (More symbolism, as we know that Ramsay's bride was actually a Jeyne, not an Arya.) 

More symbols, for those who care:

  • When Lady Westerling grabs the Stark crown from Jeyne's head, Jeyne gets a cut on her forehead. This is "third eye" symbolism. I suspect it might symbolize Jeyne "awakening" to her magical powers (the rumor was that Maggie the Frog was related to the Spicers, I believe).
  • Catelyn stops sewing when Jeyne comes to see her. After Robb is killed, Jeyne tears her garments. The tearing of garments and the cessation of sewing may represent the intention to commit murder or destruction or the start a war. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Jeyne will receive a short drop and a sudden stop should Lady Stoneheart get her hands on her. Catelyn never supported the match and perceiving that she might have been involved would be tantamount to a death sentence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/22/2022 at 7:01 PM, Angel Eyes said:

I think Jeyne will receive a short drop and a sudden stop should Lady Stoneheart get her hands on her. Catelyn never supported the match and perceiving that she might have been involved would be tantamount to a death sentence.

Yeah, I always imagined party of Jeyne to be captured and then Stoneheart loosing shit when she hears about tansy tea, from Jeyne.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always thought that if Jeyne's escort where attacked it would more likely be the Blackfish than Stoneheart's branch of the BwB. That faction is embittered and very much believes in revenge-as-justice, where I think the Blackfish is more about continuing the fight by freeing hostages. Besides, Stoneheart is currently in the Brienne plot, and has to resolve that cliffhanger before she is free to appear in elsewhere in the narrative.

 

I'd put my money on Rolph Spicer as the Prologue POV. They often have realisation they made some error of judgement right before they die, and I think that would suit Spicer realising he backed the wrong horse.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Buried Treasure said:

Besides, Stoneheart is currently in the Brienne plot, and has to resolve that cliffhanger before she is free to appear in elsewhere in the narrative.

 

 

There might be overlap explained laterally, ie Jaime could be the key to the ambush. But generally I think it’s more likely to be the BF or Nymeria. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the prologue POV will be Sybell Westerling

I think Prester's retinue will come under attack and Lady Sybell will be our eyes and ears into that. I don't know if it'll be Nymeria, the Blackfish, the Brotherhood or any combination of the above.... but I think it'll be the Brotherhood

Maybe Brienne will be a part of the attack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GRRM also said we'd see the rock, and the prologues have gone:
AGOT: North of the Wall
ACOK: Maester of Dragonstone
ASOS: North of the Wall
AFFC: Old Town (Maesters)
ADWD: North of the Wall

I say we see the POV as the Maester of the Rock.  Kevan is dead, Tywin is dead, Jamie is missing, Tyrion is wanted, Cersei is in KL.  It's going to be a mess, with maybe a baby Westerling in tow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, spearson said:

GRRM also said we'd see the rock, and the prologues have gone:
AGOT: North of the Wall
ACOK: Maester of Dragonstone
ASOS: North of the Wall
AFFC: Old Town (Maesters)
ADWD: North of the Wall

I say we see the POV as the Maester of the Rock.  Kevan is dead, Tywin is dead, Jamie is missing, Tyrion is wanted, Cersei is in KL.  It's going to be a mess, with maybe a baby Westerling in tow.

The rationale here is oddly fitting. Do I think this is how GRRM makes decisions or plans his chapters? No. He most certainly writes how he says he writes "like a gardener" and "to make a story you can live in". However, I support this theory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...