The Royces should have been Old God worshippers

[Evolett]

On 6/1/2022 at 9:51 PM, Seams said:

If Sansa is Catelyn's heir/hair, and Randa Royce represents House Royce, why is Mya Stone also part of the escort for Sweetrobin descending the mountain from the Eyrie? She is a mule-handler, and she is described as half-mule, which is an odd coincidence: her father, Robert, was in love with Lyanna Stark, who was described as half-horse. 

Possible wordplay with "mule" and "lume" - lume as in a source of light, Mya figurativly lighting the way up and down the mountain. Or Mya the "mule-handler" in the sense of smuggling in something illegal or someone dangerous into the Eyrie, a castle complex which is supposed to be impregnable... opening a magical door and leading the way.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

On 6/1/2022 at 7:17 AM, Seams said:

the people at Mole's Town will rise up

Bah! I love this. But now I gotta go dig up Mole’s Town and mine for new thoughts. Stupid sable and moleskin and iron and oak and iron wood?, iron-oak tree? Bah!  

[Bobity.]

Thing about the term "First Men", is that it's from the perspective of the writers of history, the Andals, to describe all people who were living in Westeros prior to their arrival.

Based on this logic, from the Dawn Age throughout the entire Age of Heroes and after the Long Night there was only a single ancient walking wave of migration into Westeros when a continuous land in sight naval route existed from Essos. I find that hard to accept.

I believe that the term "First Men" has been erroneously over applied, imposing an origin story to the entire pre Andal Westeros population, masking any immigration during the Age of Heroes and diversity among pre Andal Westerosi. Its when looking deeper into the details, like the religious practices of House Royce, that things no longer line up.

[Curled Finger]

Wow, some really good points here.   As to the Royce religious leanings with the motto We Remember coupled with ancient armor inscribed with runes I am inclined to believe House Royce may well still worship whatever gods the original 1st Men brought over with them--before the old Gods were introduced.  The preservation of that armor along with the replication of it for tourney purposes is plenty odd, but strikes a feeling of dedication, of stewardship taken seriously.   For all it's worth. 

[Evolett]

On 6/1/2022 at 4:17 PM, Seams said:

Meanwhile, in the Vale, we have a newly-elevated, "junior" House Royce earning a possible permanent seat at the Gates of the Moon. We also have an effort to create a new kings guard of sorts in the upcoming tourney. Both initiatives coming from (or approved by) Petyr Baelish who, like Jeor Mormont, strikes me as a puppetmaster in Game of Thrones gameplay. Is Baelish trying to create a sealed door around Sweetrobin (or Sansa), or is he setting up a gate the opening and closing of which he can control? My gut tells me he is setting up this gate in order for Sansa to control it. And Sansa is an heir of Catelyn (she has her hair), so this would put a Tully back in charge of the gate to the Eyrie. 

I've been considering the four Wardens of Westeros in terms of wardens or gate-keepers of winter (the North), summer (the South), sunset or autumn (the West) and sunrise/dawn or spring (the East). That makes House Arryn the guardian of the dawn. Anyone threatening the dawn (the sun's rising each day) is symbolically thrown back into the night through the moon door or repelled much earlier at the Gates of the Moon. Dawn is a liminal time, the  threshhold between night and day and a time when crossing the borders between the mundane world and the supernatural is possible. 

I think Sansa has intrinsic ability to open or close this magical "door" between night and sunrise (or between flying high with the sun - the falcon, or opening the moon door to the night - the sickle crescent moon of death). Incedentally, Maester Cressen (think Crescent moon) and his death by the Strangler poison and Sansa with her poisoned Strangler gems are related.  I conducted some research into the name "Tully" and came up with some interesting hints that may be valid in this regard. 

Tulle is a lightweight fabric, a stiff netting commonly used for gowns and veils. Also for the ballarina dancer's tutu. Sansa is an accomplished sewer and the netting fabric reminds of the silver spiderweb hairnet studded with "strangler" amethysts. Considering the use of tulle for veils, there might be wordplay on vale (Vale of Arryn) and veil. Sansa with her Tully "veil" may be the guardian of the "veil of dawn," capable of opening or closing the veil as she chooses. "Tull" is also associated with fertility and farming and with singing / music. Born in 1647, Jethro Tull was an English agriculturist who helped to bring about the British Agricultural Revolution of the 18th century through his invention of the horse-drawn seed-drill. The band Jethro Tull took its name from this inventor. In relation to Jethro Tull, Sansa knows all the songs and the Vale is also a region of high food production. 

 

[Evolett]

16 hours ago, Evolett said:

Tulle is a lightweight fabric, a stiff netting commonly used for gowns and veils. Also for the ballarina dancer's tutu. Sansa is an accomplished sewer and the netting fabric reminds of the silver spiderweb hairnet studded with "strangler" amethysts. Considering the use of tulle for veils, there might be wordplay on vale (Vale of Arryn) and veil. Sansa with her Tully "veil" may be the guardian of the "veil of dawn," capable of opening or closing the veil as she chooses. "Tull" is also associated with fertility and farming and with singing / music. Born in 1647, Jethro Tull was English agriculturist who helped to bring about the British Agricultural Revolution of the 18th century through his invention of the horse-drawn seed-drill. The band Jethro Tull took its name from this inventor. In relation to Jethro Tull, Sansa knows all the songs and the Vale is also a region of high food production. 

I hit the submit button before finishing this post last night.... 

Jethro Tull as a clue to the Tully name might sound silly but we do know that GRRM chooses his character names with care and reasoning behind every name. The connection may be a coincidence but if so it's pretty spot on. We have the sewing and sowing themes all nicely bundled together with the songs. Much is made of the Stark girls sewing lessons, sewing being a woman's domain and definitely promoted by Catelyn. 

There's also Patchface's remark on merwives under the sea weaving gowns of silver seawead and wearing nennymoans in their hair. Readers have long suspected a connection to Sansa with her silver gown and hairnet. The Tully's with their trout sigil and castle situated at the confluence of two rivers, rulers of the Riverlands perhaps have an ancient connection to these "merpeople." Weaving gowns of silver seaweed could mean anything from magically weaving light, water, glamours or veils as transitional states. 

 

[LynnS]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:10 PM, Evolett said:

Possible wordplay with "mule" and "lume" - lume as in a source of light, Mya figurativly lighting the way up and down the mountain. Or Mya the "mule-handler" in the sense of smuggling in something illegal or someone dangerous into the Eyrie, a castle complex which is supposed to be impregnable... opening a magical door and leading the way.

Mule, lume and loom.  A tool for weaving or a shadowy presence.