Watched, Watched, Watching: Saltier Things Part One

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I’m listening to my favorite movie podcast and I am literally shocked by what they’re reviewing. Has anyone heard of or seen Tiptoes? If not, Google it, but just look at the cast before reading what it’s about. How they got that many star actors to make what sounds like one of the most offensive movies ever I will never understand. It stars three, THREE, freaking Oscar winners.

[DMC]

4 hours ago, polishgenius said:

It's quite literally the whole premise of what a kick is. Unless you're suggesting that waking up from that feeling of falling is voluntary. 

Spoiler

No, "voluntary" has nothing to do with the premise of what a kick is, and yes, I'm suggesting that waking up from that feeling is "voluntary."  It's the basis of the entire movie - these are very highly paid thieves because they are very good lucid dreamers.  The premise of the kick is essentially pinching yourself to wake up, which obviously is voluntary - and as Arthur says in that clip you provided, it's simply a more elegant solution than someone (including yourself) shooting you in the head to wake up.  (And of course, the problem with that normally-always easy out is Yusef's compound won't let you wake up if you die but rather send you to limbo.)

The rules you say the film broke are yours, not the film's, or you misunderstanding the film's rules and how they are established.  When you ask things like "The fortress is used to jolt... what? Ariadne uses it as the signal to kill herself in Limbo and wake up, but they were planning it before they thought they were going to Limbo," you are answering your own question.  The fortress - and Hardy using the defibrillator right before to "revive" Fischer - are used to signal Cobb and Ariadne in the "lower" level of limbo.  As is borne out in the film. 

Blowing up the fortress was not the "original plan" before they thought they were going into limbo.  The original plan for the kick at the third level was the avalanche, which was the first kick.  Like, literally right after the avalanche happens they're all like "fuck, now we have to improvise another kick" then discuss/calculate how much time they have to improvise a second kick at that level.  And so Hardy improvises the fortress explosion, just as JGL has to improvise the elevator explosion at the second level, because they missed those first kicks.

As for my "supposition" about limbo, you're simply not addressing the point.  Again, the reason Fischer and Ariadne don't age is because they still follow the second kick back up - one voluntarily and one very not.

[polishgenius]

Spoiler

The avalanche is a manifestation of the kick two levels below them as the van hit the bridge, presumably not strong enough to wake them because there wasn't a true kick at hotel level. Okay, fine, I don't buy that Arthur could choose to stay in the hotel level on the information they gave but let's roll with it, and I can buy that for those asleep in the hotel it wouldn't be enough. They planned to ride that out, that's all fine and good. Why would they even assume there wouldn't be another one with the next kick?

I notice you've started framing things I've never said in quotes to make my argument seem weaker:
 

1 hour ago, DMC said:

 

Spoiler

Blowing up the fortress was not the "original plan" before they thought they were going into limbo.  The original plan for the kick at the third level was the avalanche, which was the first kick.  Like, literally right after the avalanche happens they're all like "fuck, now we have to improvise another kick" then discuss/calculate how much time they have to improvise a second kick at that level.  And so Hardy improvises the fortress explosion,

 

Spoiler

Exactly. Right after the avalanche happens. I didn't say original plan, I said they were planning on it before they knew they were going into Limbo. Which we know because Ariadne insisting that they do go because they will have time is a direct response to Cobb telling Eames to set the charges, we're leaving without Fischer.

 

As for him not aging because he rode the kick straight back out- yeah but he was down there for a pretty good chunk of time before they ever went in, and Saito died after him (after Ariadne and Cobb entered Limbo themselves, even, I think, though I'm not sure on that). I suppose you could handwave it as it's not clear who was there longer in the end, him or Saito, since Cobb had to find the latter, but the one thing they make clear about Limbo is a short time in higher levels is a long long time there so it is an awkward handwave for me. 

Fuck it, I'm going to watch Paprika.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Spoiler

As for him not aging because he rode the kick straight back out- yeah but he was down there for a pretty good chunk of time before they ever went in, and Saito died after him (after Ariadne and Cobb entered Limbo themselves, even, I think, though I'm not sure on that). I suppose you could handwave it as it's not clear who was there longer in the end, him or Saito, since Cobb had to find the latter, but the one thing they make clear about Limbo is a short time in higher levels is a long long time there so it is an awkward handwave for me. 

 

Spoiler

Again, the reason Saito ages is because he "loses himself" and, along with Cobb, misses the second kick.  You're of course right that Saito dies after Fischer on the third level, but that's not why Saito ages.  We obviously don't even see him in the period from when Cobb and Ariadne enter limbo to when they are tipped off to the second kick and Cobb chooses to stay.

The rest of these arguments we could go on about for days but that's kind of my point.  They are, at best, very nitpicky complaints you could level at if you dissected most movies/narratives -- especially any movie that is that convoluted and subsequently meticulous about explaining its logic.

If you don't buy their rationale, that's fine.  I'm sure you'll go on shitting on Nolan at times and at times I'll tease you about it.  No big deal.

 

[Cas Stark]

21 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

S2E6 Halloween is pure genius. Just absolutely wow. Layers, layers, layers everywhere. Had they hired a new writer for this season? Yay Buffy. 

I'm glad you're getting into it!  I did a rewatch of the early seasons recently and while it wasn't as consistently great as I had remembered and some of the 'clever banter' felt forced, the great was still great.

"Amends" from season 3 is one of my all time favorite episodes.  

I am counted among those who did not much like season 5 or 6, although they both had some very good episodes.

[polishgenius]

21 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm sure you'll go on shitting on Nolan at times and at times I'll tease you about it.  No big deal.

[Ran]

A couple other films I've finished recently:

Happening ( L'événement), last year's winner of the Golden Lion at the Venice Film Festival. Directed with exacting care by Audrey Diwan, based on the autobiographical novel of the same name by Annie Ernaux. It tells the story of 20-something Anne Duschense (Ernaux's maiden name) as a bright young university student who sees all her hopes and dreams on the precipice when she ends up pregnant. At that time, in 1963, abortion was illegal in France, and the film follows her increasingly-desperate attempts to save her plans for the future.

What follows includes some decidedly harrowing scenes that reflect, in their way, the terrible danger of the options available. Though inhabiting the 60s in terms of costume, styling, and music, and so on, the camera itself has a very modern aesthetic to it while really wonderfully making use of the tight, almost-square Academy ratio (which, yes, is very  old -- but what is old is new again, etc.)  So with the performances, especially by star Anamaria Vartolomei (who won the César Award for Most Promising Actress) who really manages to convey Anne's desires and fears, her desperation and her determination. 

One critique I might say from some about the film is the very... French approach to nudity, as Anne lives in a dormitory with other students and there are several scenes featuring group showers. To me, these are increasingly about her vulnerability, especially as her pregnancy moves along and she fears it being noticed, but yes, sometimes they're also about her sexuality and desires which put her in conflict with the mores of the time and with some of her classmates (that said, one of the ringleaders of a clique who have taken against her ends up having a surprising and moving turn late in the film.) 

All in all, really excellent and worth seeing if you can find it.

The other film I saw was The Worst Person in the World (Verdens verste menneske), nominated for the Palme d'Or and the Academy Award and many other awards. Directed by Joachim Trier (who is "very remotely" related to Lars von Trier), this film really got me. It's beautifully composed, and there's a truly memorable scene of a daydream that involves all of Oslo freezing in time while the main character Julie (richly played by Renate Reinsve, who won the Best Actress award at Cannes... and who claimed she was on the verge of quitting acting and taking up carpentry when she landed this role) imagines a date with a man who sort of sweeps her off her feet after a chance encounter.

Julie is about 30 years old during the film, and is someone who is very bright but also seemingly allergic to finishing anything -- she goes from pre-med to psychology to photography to writing, using up student loans and ultimately working part time in a bookstore -- and that goes for her relationships as well. To me, this film really feels like it might be the last, truly great Generation X film, because Julie's ennui is certainly something Gen Xers will recognize, but there's also Aksel (well-played by Anders Danielsen Lie), the first man she gets into a long-term relationship, a popular comic book artist and writer who is a decade older... and the divide between them, generationally, actually ends up mattering. There's a really moving passage, late in the film, that led me to find that A.O. Scott wrote a lengthy essay  specifically about all the things that particular moment in the film brought up for him and which I think really resonates with me. (There are probably spoilers in said essay)

This may not be the greatest era in the history of cinema in Hollywood, but the rest of the world ticks on and every year some truly astounding films are being made.

[BigFatCoward]

S3 of Barry is getting too dark. The subject matter was always a bit sinister, but handled quite lightly in S1-2. 

 

[RhaenysBee]

On 6/22/2022 at 9:39 PM, Ran said:

The show only gets better. That's not to say every episode is great, there are duds every season, but it really did take time to find its footing. Season 3 may be the best of them, or perhaps season 5 -- opinions vary. Season 6 is doubtless the most controversial season, but has its adherents.

Disney+ only streams the first two seasons and now that I’m hooked, I’m pretty bothered by that. I need to figure out where to watch the rest and soon

23 hours ago, Ran said:

I'm a fan of S6 and as I said there are people who consider it the best season, too. (And if you are Team Spike, you definitely need to watch S6.)

But the range of opinions is why it's controversial! But I think if you're hooked on S2, then you absolutely will power through the rest of the series, @RhaenysBee. And then, you have five seasons of Angel to enjoy.

I don’t know about Angel, but definitely finishing up Buffy. And maybe I need to watch more 90s-00s series that I had missed out on back in the day. Sublime entertainment. 

15 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I'm glad you're getting into it!  I did a rewatch of the early seasons recently and while it wasn't as consistently great as I had remembered and some of the 'clever banter' felt forced, the great was still great.

"Amends" from season 3 is one of my all time favorite episodes.  

I am counted among those who did not much like season 5 or 6, although they both had some very good episodes.

I have vague memories of seeing parts of some episodes of the later seasons. I distinctly remember a short haired Willow and issues with Dawn. Well, I’m hyped  

[Werthead]

Season 3 of The Orville has been disappointing so far. The first three episodes were weak, each successively worse than the last, and the third episode would have been kicked out of a Voyager script development session for being far too bollocks.

Episode 4 did at least start bringing things back together, but the late-episode slide into the abortion debate was as utterly hideous as you'd expect a "Seth MacFarlane talks about abortion" piece to be.

I'm also bewildered by the "New Horizons" tag. Episode 2 set up them going into a new region of space, like the Expanse in Enterprise Season 3, but then they just forget all about it and it's back to Season 1-2 business as normal.

Quote

It has significant flaws, like a ridiculously over-literal interpretation of a potentially decent metaphor as one main arc, but there's a lot of great as well. Once More With Feeling is arguably the best episode of anything, ever, and certainly justifies the existence of the season. Season 7 isn't great, but still worth watching.

Season 6 of Buffy feels overwrought and weird when you're a teenager and lands far too hard when you're older. A hard watch, but I think genius in its own way. It also has my favourite scene in the whole series,

Spoiler

when Buffy's issues reach breaking point and she just snaps and Tara, who doesn't even know Buffy that well (although Tara being out of the loop with the Scoobies despite knowing them for a quarter of a decade at that point is itself a strange story point), has to help her get through it. It sets up an interesting Tara-Buffy friendship which could have been really interesting if they hadn't run out of time.

 

[Cas Stark]

8 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

Disney+ only streams the first two seasons and now that I’m hooked, I’m pretty bothered by that. I need to figure out where to watch the rest and soon

I don’t know about Angel, but definitely finishing up Buffy. And maybe I need to watch more 90s-00s series that I had missed out on back in the day. Sublime entertainment. 

I have vague memories of seeing parts of some episodes of the later seasons. I distinctly remember a short haired Willow and issues with Dawn. Well, I’m hyped  

I think all of Buffy is available free on Amazon Prime, if you have that.

[williamjm]

10 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

I don’t know about Angel, but definitely finishing up Buffy. And maybe I need to watch more 90s-00s series that I had missed out on back in the day. Sublime entertainment.

I realise that if you've just seen Buffy then the idea of a spin-off series focused on Angel might not seem all that appealing but I think overall it's probably the stronger show so I would recommend giving it a try at some point.

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, williamjm said:

I realise that if you've just seen Buffy then the idea of a spin-off series focused on Angel might not seem all that appealing but I think overall it's probably the stronger show so I would recommend giving it a try at some point.

Yeah, Angel is certainly the more consistent show and doesn't have the weak spots that Buffy has, whilst probably matching its strongest moments.

[Luzifer's right hand]

3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I think all of Buffy is available free on Amazon Prime, if you have that.

Sadly streaming content varies between countries.

Disney+ has all seasons of Buffy and Angel here in Austria for example.

Prime has the SD version in the German dub...

Disney+ is my main streaming service now because it has a lot old stuff in the OV. I freaking love Golden Girls for example.

[felice]

2 hours ago, williamjm said:

I realise that if you've just seen Buffy then the idea of a spin-off series focused on Angel might not seem all that appealing but I think overall it's probably the stronger show so I would recommend giving it a try at some point.

There are also some significant crossovers, particularly in Angel's first season. There's a suggested viewing order here.

[williamjm]

2 minutes ago, felice said:

There are also some significant crossovers, particularly in Angel's first season. There's a suggested viewing order here.

Hopefully they're both available on the same streaming service. I remember back when I watched them first on UK TV they were on different channels and were not at all synchronised.

[Gigei]

Should someone make a thread for Umbrella Academy Season 3? I'll be watching soon! *crosses fingers that it will be good*

[IFR]

13 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

S3 of Barry is getting too dark. The subject matter was always a bit sinister, but handled quite lightly in S1-2. 

 

  Not even close to being dark enough for me, but headed in the right direction. Wonderfully fun season!

[HexMachina]

47 minutes ago, Gigei said:

Should someone make a thread for Umbrella Academy Season 3? I'll be watching soon! *crosses fingers that it will be good*

I'm reaching season 1 and 2 as a refresher first. Its holding up well and can't wait to get up to S3! One interesting note:

Spoiler

Viktor being a trans man was not planned from the start, Elliott has talked openly about this being written into the script for season 3 to accommodate his own experience. But watching season one through the lens of Viktor being a trans man...it works. Really well. I guess a happy coincidence but interesting all the same.

 

[RhaenysBee]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I think all of Buffy is available free on Amazon Prime, if you have that.

I do but it isn’t. Not here anyway. Life is hard in various ways in Eastern Europe and this may just be worse than the currency rate or the inflation… hmm, that came out more dramatic than intended.