What if Khal Drogo's Khalasar captured King's Landing and made Rhaego the King on the Iron Throne?

[Jonsa]

In this alternative scenario, Khal Drogo never gets wounded by Ogo. He sacks Lhazar and then sells the slaves that he has harvested for warships to take his Khalasar across the Narrow Sea, as well as entire companies of Essosi sellswords to both sail/navigate the ships across the Narrow Sea and to further reinforce his invasion force of Westeros.

The Khalasar lands relatively safely/intact in the Narrow Sea coastlines (having picked up Ser Barristan Selmy/Arstan Whitebeard) during their voyage, and using Barristan's intimate knowledge of Crownlands geography, immediately storms to and captures King's Landing taking advantage of the Dothraki's unprecedented speed of advance compared with the native Westerosi armies, after getting one of the seven gates open either through force(using battering rams) or subterfuge (Barristan, Jorah and some of the mercenaries scaling the King's Landing walls and then getting one open, similarly to Theon's seizure of Winterfell). All of this happens right in the middle of A Clash of Kings.

After seizing the city, Drogo proceeds to loot, pillage and rape his way across the city. Tyrion, Cersei, Joffrey, Tommen and Lancel are all put to the sword by the horde without trial, as is every Lannister relative in the capital at this point. (Myrcella is travelling to Dorne at this point, so she's out of the way of Daenerys' revenge against the "Baratheons"). The Hound deserts the Kingsguard and flees the city during the fighting.

Presuming that Ilyn Payne is killed when the horde breaks into the Red Keep and Sansa survives her ordeal, what would have been her reaction to being liberated from the Lannisters by the Dothraki? After Drogo and Daenerys secure Rhaego as the King on the Iron Throne, I can certainly see Rhaego getting married to Sansa in order to further secure the Dothraki's tenuous foothold on Westeros. Keeping Sansa on as their ward/hostage, Ser Barristan Selmy is re-made Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and Hand of the King again, whilst Jorah is sent off to King Robb to negotiate a North-Riverlands-Dothraki alliance with Sansa's safety as the bargaining chip against both the Baratheons(Renly, Stannis) and the Lannisters.

Would Robb have allied with/bent the knee to Rhaego at this point for the sake of his sister's safety if not allowing Sansa to remain Queen Consort on the Iron Throne/Khaleesi?

[Thedog]

Interesting hypothetical  

Im not sure it gets to that point. I even assuming the Dothraki and sell swords could take kings landings (they probably can since they have sacked many cities in Essos over the years), I don’t think they could take the red keep. Even if they could take the Red Keep. Maegor’s holdfast wouldn’t fall. Basically in the stories, it’s considered impregnable. But maybe they take Maegor’s Holdfast through betrayal (I could certainly see Cersei turning against people if she cooped up in there for months, and someone taking the risk of Dothraki versus being Cersei).  
 

I don’t see Dany treating Sansa any better (from her perspective) than Stark treated her niece and nephew. 
 

Robb also seemed to show the willingness to risk Sansa when she was held by the Lannisters. 

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

The hypothetical strayed from the source material in such a way as to make it a different story.  A very different story.  The Khalasar under Drogo, with the help of Barristan, could surround King's Landing and starve the people out.  I believe that is how that game will have played.  The townsfolk would give up the city.

Sansa is not important enough for Prince Rheago.  Margery Tyrell is another story though.  The age gap is quite large but it can be managed.  It's not about love.  I also think Daenerys will work her way to the throne regardless of her status as Khaleesi.  She is clever.  It will be many years before Rhaego is secure.  The boy may prefer Essos to Westeros. 

[Jonsa]

7 hours ago, Thedog said:

Interesting hypothetical  

Im not sure it gets to that point. I even assuming the Dothraki and sell swords could take kings landings (they probably can since they have sacked many cities in Essos over the years), I don’t think they could take the red keep. Even if they could take the Red Keep. Maegor’s holdfast wouldn’t fall. Basically in the stories, it’s considered impregnable. But maybe they take Maegor’s Holdfast through betrayal (I could certainly see Cersei turning against people if she cooped up in there for months, and someone taking the risk of Dothraki versus being Cersei).  
 

I don’t see Dany treating Sansa any better (from her perspective) than Stark treated her niece and nephew. 
 

Robb also seemed to show the willingness to risk Sansa when she was held by the Lannisters. 

Would Robb be really able to refuse Drogo's offer of letting Sansa remain Queen/Khaleesi and destroying the Lannisters and the Baratheons together?

 

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The hypothetical strayed from the source material in such a way as to make it a different story.  A very different story.  The Khalasar under Drogo, with the help of Barristan, could surround King's Landing and starve the people out.  I believe that is how that game will have played.  The townsfolk would give up the city.

Sansa is not important enough for Prince Rheago.  Margery Tyrell is another story though.  The age gap is quite large but it can be managed.  It's not about love.  I also think Daenerys will work her way to the throne regardless of her status as Khaleesi.  She is clever.  It will be many years before Rhaego is secure.  The boy may prefer Essos to Westeros. 

Sansa is three years younger than Margaery Tyrell, meaning that the age gap between KING Rhaego I and his Queen/Khaleesi will be smaller. Drogo and Daenerys have to take account of the fact that Rhaego will likely remain fertile longer than either of them.

[Jonsa]

P.S. Khal Drogo re-legalizes slavery in Westeros after capturing King's Landing.

[SeanF]

It depends how clued-up Drogo is about political affairs in Westeros.

But, yes, if Sansa were spared, and betrothed to Rhaego, Robb would take that deal in an instant.

The Starks would be part of the royal family, and Ned well and truly avenged.

[Vaegon the dragonless]

It would be catastrophic for Westeros, Dany was not a leader before the death of Drogo so the whole continent would be subjected to pillage, rape, murder and slavery. With a army of at least ten thousand they would be a threat to most region, especially if the Westerosi dont know how to fight them effectively. Westeros would most likely unifie of sorts, more like a truce in the same win China did during WW2. I would think that they would eventually be defeated, the would most likely not be able to pass the Neck or the Mountains of the Moon, the Red mountains might be hard for them to pass for them too. They would be bled dry after a few years and the Targaryen would be ousted once again, this time for good, or maybe fAegon would try and be a unifying figure by opposing the Dothraki and not being a Lannister. In the end it would leave the realm even weaker then they are now against the long Night, in all it would be a disaster like Westeros never saw before since the first long night.

On the question of what would happen to Sansa, I believe that she would not be sparred, Daenerys would see her has the child of the usurpers dog so I dont think she would care enough too save her, and even if she was sparred I doubt that she would have significant trauma from what the Dothraki would have done to her, that alone might push the North and Riverlands to make truce with the Lannister's and avenge her honour.

I might be harsh but I think that George made the Dothraki too one dimensional, they are a bunch of savage rapist and plunderers that seem to have no other purpose than pillage, murder, rape or enslave every other group they come in contact with.

[Jonsa]

3 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

It would be catastrophic for Westeros, Dany was not a leader before the death of Drogo so the whole continent would be subjected to pillage, rape, murder and slavery. With a army of at least ten thousand they would be a threat to most region, especially if the Westerosi dont know how to fight them effectively. Westeros would most likely unifie of sorts, more like a truce in the same win China did during WW2. I would think that they would eventually be defeated, the would most likely not be able to pass the Neck or the Mountains of the Moon, the Red mountains might be hard for them to pass for them too. They would be bled dry after a few years and the Targaryen would be ousted once again, this time for good, or maybe fAegon would try and be a unifying figure by opposing the Dothraki and not being a Lannister. In the end it would leave the realm even weaker then they are now against the long Night, in all it would be a disaster like Westeros never saw before since the first long night.

On the question of what would happen to Sansa, I believe that she would not be sparred, Daenerys would see her has the child of the usurpers dog so I dont think she would care enough too save her, and even if she was sparred I doubt that she would have significant trauma from what the Dothraki would have done to her, that alone might push the North and Riverlands to make truce with the Lannister's and avenge her honour.

I might be harsh but I think that George made the Dothraki too one dimensional, they are a bunch of savage rapist and plunderers that seem to have no other purpose than pillage, murder, rape or enslave every other group they come in contact with.

Jorah and Barristan could spin marrying Sansa to Rhaego to Robb as preserving her honour. They might even justify the entire move to Catelyn by comparing a Sansa-Rhaego match to when she herself married Eddard, a Northerner who kept the Old Gods.

[SeanF]

If Khal Drogo won, it would almost certainly be because enough of the lords were open to a Targaryen restoration (something Robert feared).  I doubt if the Dothraki would spend years just raiding.  I expect that like most steppe conquerors, Drogo would be pretty hands-off when it came to government.

Likely a regency council would be established for Rhaego, and the Realms would be expected to pay a big annual tribute of gold, horses, food, luxury goods, and slaves to Khal Drogo in Essos.

[Moiraine Sedai]

The objective was to get the rightful king, Viserys Targaryen, on the throne. Rhaego was not even in the plans. The Stallion mounting the world is a Dothraki thing. Daenerys would marry Drogo, Drogo’s people fight for Viserys, Viserys is established, the Khalasar goes back home. Daenerys and Drogo will have future children to lead the Khalasars.  The plan died with King Viserys. The rest that followed were improvised to salvage the original objective. 
 

Khal Rhaego was not meant to sit on Viserys’ throne. The chance only became possible when his Uncle V died.  It will be 18 years before he reaches the right age. Sansa will on the other side of 30 and married to a lord of Lannister choosing.  The political landscape will have changed. If they even have a working government in Westeros. Winter will have come by the time. Drogo would balk at the thought of crossing the sea to fight for a frozen land.  

[frenin]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

If Khal Drogo won, it would almost certainly be because enough of the lords were open to a Targaryen restoration (something Robert feared). 

Targaryen restoration is one thing, Dothraki rule is quite another. Rhaego is not Viserys  for good and ill.

As for Sansa... Yeah, i'm not seeing it. Why would Robb give his sister's hand to the son of "savages" and the enemies of his father?

 

[Vaegon the dragonless]

3 hours ago, Jonsa said:

Jorah and Barristan could spin marrying Sansa to Rhaego to Robb as preserving her honour. They might even justify the entire move to Catelyn by comparing a Sansa-Rhaego match to when she herself married Eddard, a Northerner who kept the Old Gods.

But it would be completely different, Catelyn was marrying someone in the same Kingdom, sure the northerners are quite different to people south of the Neck, but they still share a language and many other things

And when I was speaking of Sansa honour, I was speaking of the fact that she would most likely be SA in the event that the dothraki were to take Kingslanding, so I dont think a simple mariage would be enougth to bring the North in the fold. Remenber that the official story is still that Lyanna was kidnapped and SA by Rhaegar, that would be 2 lady's of Winterfell in 2 generation's that suffered such a fate because of the Targaryen, the North would be out of the 7 kingdoms for good.

I also would think that Jorah and Barristan would have that much weight in the conduct of affairs, they are Dany's men not Drogo, and he would be the one making the decisions. And thats not talking about the over 10 years gap between Rhaego and Sansa.

[BlackLightning]

19 hours ago, Jonsa said:

In this alternative scenario, Khal Drogo never gets wounded by Ogo. He sacks Lhazar and then sells the slaves that he has harvested for warships to take his Khalasar across the Narrow Sea, as well as entire companies of Essosi sellswords to both sail/navigate the ships across the Narrow Sea and to further reinforce his invasion force of Westeros.

The Khalasar lands relatively safely/intact in the Narrow Sea coastlines (having picked up Ser Barristan Selmy/Arstan Whitebeard) during their voyage, and using Barristan's intimate knowledge of Crownlands geography, immediately storms to and captures King's Landing taking advantage of the Dothraki's unprecedented speed of advance compared with the native Westerosi armies, after getting one of the seven gates open either through force(using battering rams) or subterfuge (Barristan, Jorah and some of the mercenaries scaling the King's Landing walls and then getting one open, similarly to Theon's seizure of Winterfell). All of this happens right in the middle of A Clash of Kings.

After seizing the city, Drogo proceeds to loot, pillage and rape his way across the city. Tyrion, Cersei, Joffrey, Tommen and Lancel are all put to the sword by the horde without trial, as is every Lannister relative in the capital at this point. (Myrcella is travelling to Dorne at this point, so she's out of the way of Daenerys' revenge against the "Baratheons"). The Hound deserts the Kingsguard and flees the city during the fighting.

Presuming that Ilyn Payne is killed when the horde breaks into the Red Keep and Sansa survives her ordeal, what would have been her reaction to being liberated from the Lannisters by the Dothraki? After Drogo and Daenerys secure Rhaego as the King on the Iron Throne, I can certainly see Rhaego getting married to Sansa in order to further secure the Dothraki's tenuous foothold on Westeros. Keeping Sansa on as their ward/hostage, Ser Barristan Selmy is re-made Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and Hand of the King again, whilst Jorah is sent off to King Robb to negotiate a North-Riverlands-Dothraki alliance with Sansa's safety as the bargaining chip against both the Baratheons(Renly, Stannis) and the Lannisters.

Would Robb have allied with/bent the knee to Rhaego at this point for the sake of his sister's safety if not allowing Sansa to remain Queen Consort on the Iron Throne/Khaleesi?

If this is happening all in the middle of A Clash of Kings, you are forgetting about Stannis and his armada. Remember, King's Landing was being blockaded.

There'd be a big naval battle that would happen before the Dothraki are even able to land. A big naval battle that the Dothraki would lose.

And as previously mentioned, the Dothraki would have to besiege the Red Keep and then Maegor's Holdfast....at which point, the royal family could escape. And with Cersei and Joffrey being who they are, Sansa would probably be killed to spite their enemies.

 

This is also assuming that it would be smooth journey going back to Pentos and then sailing across the Narrow Sea. The Dothraki are not sailors and, under Drogo's command, don't seem to be the type to follow the instructions of expert sailors.

And you're also assuming that Varys and Illyrio will even allow Daenerys or Rhaego to come close to sitting the Iron Throne what with Aegon in their back pocket.

 

[Jonsa]

21 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

If this is happening all in the middle of A Clash of Kings, you are forgetting about Stannis and his armada. Remember, King's Landing was being blockaded.

There'd be a big naval battle that would happen before the Dothraki are even able to land. A big naval battle that the Dothraki would lose.

And as previously mentioned, the Dothraki would have to besiege the Red Keep and then Maegor's Holdfast....at which point, the royal family could escape. And with Cersei and Joffrey being who they are, Sansa would probably be killed to spite their enemies.

 

This is also assuming that it would be smooth journey going back to Pentos and then sailing across the Narrow Sea. The Dothraki are not sailors and, under Drogo's command, don't seem to be the type to follow the instructions of expert sailors.

And you're also assuming that Varys and Illyrio will even allow Daenerys or Rhaego to come close to sitting the Iron Throne what with Aegon in their back pocket.

 

Had it not been for the relief force, Stannis would have won and killed every Lannister in the city. Stannis isn't going to lift a finger to help the Lannisters at this point.

 

Drogo would be more, not less, violent than him.

 

What the Dothraki would have had done to Sansa is an open question. The smart move would definitely be to marry Sansa to Rhaego to consolidate the Dothraki foothold on Westeros.

[BlackLightning]

14 minutes ago, Jonsa said:

Had it not been for the relief force, Stannis would have won and killed every Lannister in the city. Stannis isn't going to fight for the Lannisters.

 

Drogo would be more, not less, violent than him.

 

What the Dothraki would have had done to Sansa is an open question. The smart move would definitely be to marry Sansa to Rhaego to consolidate the Dothraki foothold on Westeros.

The smart move?

We are talking about Dothraki. They don't ask questions and they take hostages; they take slaves or they kill. They won't even be able to speak the language.

At the very least, Sansa would be raped before anyone would know who Sansa was.

Daenerys is the only one of import who speaks the Common Tongue and the likelihood of Barristan and Jorah being on the frontlines in the invasion of the castle would be slim to none.

[Jonsa]

17 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

The smart move?

We are talking about Dothraki. They don't ask questions and they take hostages; they take slaves or they kill. They won't even be able to speak the language.

At the very least, Sansa would be raped before anyone would know who Sansa was.

Daenerys is the only one of import who speaks the Common Tongue and the likelihood of Barristan and Jorah being on the frontlines in the invasion of the castle would be slim to none.

Barristan, in his capacity as hand, would probably have arranged for Catelyn and Robb to be generously compensated for Sansa's honour with Ice, Joffrey's head and a ton of gold. It'd have been more than enough.

[Jonsa]

5 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The objective was to get the rightful king, Viserys Targaryen, on the throne. Rhaego was not even in the plans. The Stallion mounting the world is a Dothraki thing. Daenerys would marry Drogo, Drogo’s people fight for Viserys, Viserys is established, the Khalasar goes back home. Daenerys and Drogo will have future children to lead the Khalasars.  The plan died with King Viserys. The rest that followed were improvised to salvage the original objective. 
 

Khal Rhaego was not meant to sit on Viserys’ throne. The chance only became possible when his Uncle V died.  It will be 18 years before he reaches the right age. Sansa will on the other side of 30 and married to a lord of Lannister choosing.  The political landscape will have changed. If they even have a working government in Westeros. Winter will have come by the time. Drogo would balk at the thought of crossing the sea to fight for a frozen land.  

 

Khal Drogo changed the plan from Viserys to Rhaego after murdering him.

[Jonsa]

4 hours ago, frenin said:

Targaryen restoration is one thing, Dothraki rule is quite another. Rhaego is not Viserys  for good and ill.

As for Sansa... Yeah, i'm not seeing it. Why would Robb give his sister's hand to the son of "savages" and the enemies of his father?

 

House Targaryen is now the new ruling dynasty by right of conquest.

[Jonsa]

3 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

But it would be completely different, Catelyn was marrying someone in the same Kingdom, sure the northerners are quite different to people south of the Neck, but they still share a language and many other things

And when I was speaking of Sansa honour, I was speaking of the fact that she would most likely be SA in the event that the dothraki were to take Kingslanding, so I dont think a simple mariage would be enougth to bring the North in the fold. Remenber that the official story is still that Lyanna was kidnapped and SA by Rhaegar, that would be 2 lady's of Winterfell in 2 generation's that suffered such a fate because of the Targaryen, the North would be out of the 7 kingdoms for good.

I also would think that Jorah and Barristan would have that much weight in the conduct of affairs, they are Dany's men not Drogo, and he would be the one making the decisions. And thats not talking about the over 10 years gap between Rhaego and Sansa.

Once Drogo brings Robb Joffrey, Tommen, Cersei, Lancel and Tyrion's heads, the North now has nothing left to fight for.

 

Ned's been finally avenged, and the Starks' WOT5K objectives have been achieved in a single stroke.

 

Why wouldn't Robb and Catelyn want to bend the knee to Rhaego?

[Vaegon the dragonless]

53 minutes ago, Jonsa said:

Once Drogo brings Robb Joffrey, Tommen, Cersei, Lancel and Tyrion's heads, the North now has nothing left to fight for.

 

Ned's been finally avenged, and the Starks' WOT5K objectives have been achieved in a single stroke.

 

Why wouldn't Robb and Catelyn want to bend the knee to Rhaego?

Independance, by the time Dany and Drogo would arrive Robb would most likely already have declared the North independance. And why bend the knee to the kid of a barbarian who wants to bring back slavery and that is married to a women's who's family killed your grandfather and uncle, kidnaped and caused the death of your aunt that started the whole thing ?

And in my thinking you would add to that, that they harmed your sister. Sure they killed the Lannister's but they didnt kill them to avenge or have justice for the Starks, so sure they help you but that does not make them potential allies. Robb went to war to free is father he would continue to get is sister and break the north away.