Star Warsing Across the Universe

[Corvinus85]

Also, belonging to the video game thread, too...

 

[DMC]

17 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Ahsoka becomes a spy agent for the Rebellion and even she doesn't know until she gets close enough to feel his presence. 

Well, that's also because Ahsoka wasn't aware Anakin became Vader like Yoda and Obi-Wan were.  At least based on my addled memory.

19 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I'm pretty sure the Inquisitors are a secretive enough order that it's not common knowledge most were also Jedi.

Perhaps, but still, it's a pretty lame reason.  Don't see why Palpatine or Anakin would worry about it much when they're running an autocracy.

[Kalbear]

Some neat parts, but felt kind of cheap and stilted. Acting was not great. Dialogue was often really not great. 

Truly remarkable differences between the overall quality of this and, say, moon knight or even Hawkeye.

I do appreciate the stunt casting. Kumail and flea are both awesome. But I was just not that interested. Bringing Leia in means we have two characters that we absolutely know will be completely fine and apparently not even remember this.

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, RumHam said:

Yeah, from a certain point a view. I think that's being generous though when at least as far as I remember Bail never gives Obi-Wan any orders or anything.

No, while the Jedi serve the Senate they never actually do serve particular Senators ... and even less so during the Clone Wars when they effectively only serve the Supreme Chancellor.

2 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I’m not sure about this Leia and Obi-Wan thing … Luke called him Ben all the time. She’s unlikely to meet another Jedi, so literally the only two she meets between now and ANH are this Ben guy with a beard who just rescued her, and this Ben guy Luke keeps going on about with the beard. And I really hate the idea that she pauses off screen and goes “oh shit it’s that Ben lol, anyway…”

I'd not speculate all that much about that. She does meet the Ghost crew in Rebels, so she does know more than one Jedi already - if we count Kanan and Ezra as Jedi.

And she could meet others in the decade prior to ANH. And to be sure - while Leia is a very smart person who should remember this episode there ten years later ... she is also a person who will have literally dozens or hundreds of episodes like this on her plate in the years before ANH.

2 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

And yea I thought maybe I’d been stupid to not realise he didn’t know Anakin was alive, so I’m glad it got brought up here. Does he leave Mustafar assuming Anakin has died? Does he know the name Vader? Is Vader for some reason not in the limelight, but then becomes more active later on, enough for Leia to say “I should’ve known he’d be holding your leash”? 

Obi-Wan and Yoda both know Anakin's Sith name. Obi-Wan likely expected Vader to die on Mustafar, but once he hears about a Vader guy he must also know that Anakin survived - like they do in the show. However, common sense would indicate he should have learned about that shortly after ROTS, perhaps as early as a couple of months later.

That's how they did it in the EU since Vader isn't some obscure guy who doesn't shape Imperial politics.

In any case, though, it is clear that Vader must be quite a prominent public figure by the time of ANH or else Leia's comments there make little sense.

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Luke qualifies the question as "your real mother" in ROTJ.  That part actually makes sense.  Well, that they were referring to Padme.  That Leia actually remembered her...

Well, the way Luke's asks the question it cannot refer to Breha Organa and the entire question implies that the gang had always known that Leia had been an adopted child, possibly because they talked about their past between the movies, etc. - which the show also indicates since Leia is also aware of that fact.

However, Leia remembering Padmé as a newborn is stretching things ... unless we assume Luke himself has similar Force-preserved memories of her.

The better way there would have been to not kill her in ROTS ... but then this certainly would have left a loose end Lucas would have been forced to address somehow.

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Yeah, it's like he didn't re-watch the original movies or look at the scripts when he wrote the prequels. Barley anything lines up. Which would have been a lot more forgivable if the prequels were better movies.

If I recall correctly, they had to shoot the scene where Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lightsaber during post-production because they had forgotten that part. At times it is really a disgrace.

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Rogue One has Organa repeating that Obi-Wan served him well during the Clone Wars. And in TCW, Organa asks for Kenobi's help when trapped during a battle. 

IMO, that is sufficient to make the line work. And it's not like TCW was exhaustive and necessarily covered every single noteworthy event characters were involved in.

Not really. Obi-Wan just gets Bail out of a trouble. That's not 'serving my father during the Clone Wars'. It is helping. It certainly establishes a connection, but nothing more. The non-existent bond between Bail Organa and Obi-Wan (and the other Jedi) in the PT was always annoying. The guy was somebody Lucas could have made one of the main characters simply because of that throwaway line and the already established connection.

 

[Jaxom 1974]

2 hours ago, KalVsWade said:

 

I do appreciate the stunt casting. Kumail and flea are both awesome. But I was just not that interested. Bringing Leia in means we have two characters that we absolutely know will be completely fine and apparently not even remember this.

Thing is, Leia is kinda the MacGuffin of the story...knowing she is going to be fine shouldn't matter in the end.  

(And the little.actress playing her is amazeballs in my book!)

(And are you counting all the Inquistors who we know are going to be fine too..?)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Thing is, Leia is kinda the MacGuffin of the story...knowing she is going to be fine shouldn't matter in the end.  

Imagine if they had the balls to kill her off. Surprise, this is Star Wars the multiverse!!! 

[Jaxom 1974]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Imagine if they had the balls to kill her off. Surprise, this is Star Wars the multiverse!!! 

I'd actually extend my D+ membership another year in gratitude if they pulled a move like that! 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I'd actually extend my D+ membership another year in gratitude if they pulled a move like that! 

Never gonna happen, but maybe I can hope one day they'll do a hard R Star Wars one off movie.

[Kalbear]

39 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Thing is, Leia is kinda the MacGuffin of the story...knowing she is going to be fine shouldn't matter in the end.  

(And the little.actress playing her is amazeballs in my book!)

(And are you counting all the Inquistors who we know are going to be fine too..?)

It's hard to feel any dramatic tension when you know that both Obi-Wan and Leia are going to be entirely fine and largely unchanged from this experience. Same goes for something like the third sister threatening Owen. We know he escapes, and we know he doesn't turn in Obi-Wan, so...why? 

It's not a huge deal - it's part of all of these midquel things, and part of the deal. But it's also one of the reasons why Rogue One works a bit better - because we never know about what will happen to any of the characters aside from Vader, so any or all of them could bite it or at least be very different going out of it. 

Also, I found Leia the youngster to be incredibly annoying. 

[Maltaran]

6 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

 

(And are you counting all the Inquistors who we know are going to be fine too..?)

You say that but then they have [spoiler]Reva stab the Grand Inquisitor[/spoiler] so maybe not

 

[Heartofice]

Better Call Saul has shown you can create tension in prequels even if you kinda know the outcome, but I think the bigger problem for the Obi Wan show is that it’s story is just so generic and cookie cutter. They just threw a kidnap plot in there, a tired trope about protecting a mouthy young kid, and hoped to build around that. It so far hasn’t really felt like it’s interested in examining Obi Wans character particularly deeply, it seemed more interested in young Leia at times. 
 

Like I said , I don’t know what this show is trying to be. It’s just a mish mash of stuff.

[DMC]

10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

No, while the Jedi serve the Senate they never actually do serve particular Senators ... and even less so during the Clone Wars when they effectively only serve the Supreme Chancellor.

This is a pointless distinction if you buy into the ethos.  They serve the Senate and all its members therein -- not just its leader or the "Supreme Chancellor."  That's the entire point.  And yeah, they do serve particular Senators when circumstances require.  There's a few Clone Wars episodes revolving around that.

9 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Thing is, Leia is kinda the MacGuffin of the story...knowing she is going to be fine shouldn't matter in the end.  

What else is new?

[Maia]

I liked it a lot. Little Leia is, maybe a little dumb for a 10-year-old with her upbringing and looks a bit too young , but the  actress is good for a kid that age, IMHO. Also, was it hinted that she has some Force mind powers? In particular, sensing lies and fears? 

 

11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Obi-Wan and Yoda both know Anakin's Sith name. Obi-Wan likely expected Vader to die on Mustafar, but once he hears about a Vader guy he must also know that Anakin survived - like they do in the show. However, common sense would indicate he should have learned about that shortly after ROTS, perhaps as early as a couple of months later.

 

Obi-Wan has been living in the armpit of nowhere for 10 years, deliberately cut off from any but the most widespread news in the Empire. Unless Vader appeared in official broadcasts to the Outer Rim - which, why would he? Kenobi had no reason to think that he was alive or hear his name.  Force connection between them broke when Anakin turned to the dark side, as has been already established with Ahsoka, so Obi wouldn't have sensed him from afar either. It makes perfect sense to me that he was unaware until this moment. Bail had to know, of course, but it seems like this was their first contact since Leia's delivery. So, the question here is why Bail didn't mention it at this juncture - but maybe he'll explain his reasons yet.

 

11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That's how they did it in the EU since Vader isn't some obscure guy who doesn't shape Imperial politics.

 

That admiral on  the Death Star in ANH seemed unfamiliar enough with Vader that he chose to sass him. It certainly seemed in the OT that Vader had been more of a behind-the-scenes presence before  Tarkin's death. Known to the elite, sure, but not the galaxy at large.

I also don't understand the whole "we know what happens to these characters, so there is no tension" position. First of all, even supposedly original shows and movies very seldom surprise on this score, unless an actor choses to leave mid-show run, that is. Particularly family-friendly adventure films and shows.  And second, historicals exist.

 

[Spockydog]

2 minutes ago, Maia said:

I also don't understand the whole "we know what happens to these characters, so there is no tension" position.

 

Pfft. Everyone knows that the only dramatic thing that ever happens to people is dying horribly.

 

[DMC]

36 minutes ago, Maia said:

That admiral on  the Death Star in ANH seemed unfamiliar enough with Vader that he chose to sass him. It certainly seemed in the OT that Vader had been more of a behind-the-scenes presence before  Tarkin's death. Known to the elite, sure, but not the galaxy at large.

This is betrayed in Rogue One where Krennic effectively treats Vader as Palpatine's chief of staff - clearly above Tarkin in the chain of command.

[Ran]

Grand Moffs are sort of political-military figures rather than straight military, while Krennec is a bureuacrat in a military research division specifically creating a unique superweapon... and one that uses khyber crystals, of particular significance to users of the Force. 

I'm willing to believe that Vader's role with the Emperor is shadowy enough among the mainstream military and wider society that an admiral could make the foolish mistake of insulting Vader and thinking they could get away with it, whereas the Empire's chief governors, with direct lines to the Emperor, know pretty well what Vader is... and that those in secretive research groups that touch on Jedi-relevant stuff or are carrying out special orders from the Emperor may also have contact with, and recognize the actual power of, Vader.

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

Grand Moffs are sort of political-military figures rather than straight military, while Krennec is a bureuacrat in a military research division specifically creating a unique superweapon... and one that uses khyber crystals, of particular significance to users of the Force. 

Clearly yeah, Tarkin outranks Krennec and the latter is more of a "bureaucrat" than the former.  But in such a regime the distinction of "political appointee" doesn't really matter.  The point is Krennec is trying to go over Tarkin's head when he meets with Vader and in doing so it's established that Vader is the "gatekeeper" to Palpatine - which is pretty much the definition of the chief of staff in an "imperial" presidency (i.e. Schlesinger).

The scene in ANH works fine under this framework.  Vader was choking the dude to death, and Tarkin was the most senior member to say, ya know, stop.

Anyway the idea that Vader was a "secretive" figure for the first ten years of the empire can be rationalized, sure.  The reasoning for why they'd bother to do so just seems pretty stupid.

[Corvinus85]

I would say Vader was always the Emperor's enforcer, outside of the direct military/political chain of command. He spent the early years of the Empire probably hunting the remaining Jedi, then as that died down he likely went wherever there were major nuisances that needed to be put down hard. The Emperor can probably command Vader to take orders from Tarkin.

[DaveSumm]

33 minutes ago, DMC said:

Anyway the idea that Vader was a "secretive" figure for the first ten years of the empire can be rationalized, sure.  The reasoning for why they'd bother to do so just seems pretty stupid.

Do we have any other reference points  for Vader before this series? I can’t recall him showing up until Rebels. It’d be cool if he was just so badly messed up by the lava that he literally has to spend most of his life in that tank, and gradually recuperates. Palps playing the long game knowing that he’ll be an asset, gradually replacing body parts with machinery. You could get reeeeal dark with that, like Vader would rather die but he’s kept alive against his will, all the while the anger at this is channeling into him getting further and further lost to the dark side.

In fact, all this would be way cooler if Lucas hadn’t have felt the need to tie such a neat bow on the transition between RotS and ANH, and Anakin hadn’t snapped so hard and gone from “maybe I’ll report the emperor … OK maybe I’ll murder all these kids” in about 10 minutes. If he’d just shown some leanings to his way of thinking (ala The Clone Wars) and been forced to choose between Obi and Palp, but ultimately still been a relatable and sympathetic character … THEN got burnt, THEN Palps fucks him the fuck up and he goes full Vader, and we could see that emergence in this series. 

So basically another “it’s a shame the prequels were shit” post. 

 

[RumHam]

31 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Do we have any other reference points  for Vader before this series? I can’t recall him showing up until Rebels. It’d be cool if he was just so badly messed up by the lava that he literally has to spend most of his life in that tank, and gradually recuperates. Palps playing the long game knowing that he’ll be an asset, gradually replacing body parts with machinery. You could get reeeeal dark with that, like Vader would rather die but he’s kept alive against his will, all the while the anger at this is channeling into him getting further and further lost to the dark side.

In fact, all this would be way cooler if Lucas hadn’t have felt the need to tie such a neat bow on the transition between RotS and ANH, and Anakin hadn’t snapped so hard and gone from “maybe I’ll report the emperor … OK maybe I’ll murder all these kids” in about 10 minutes. If he’d just shown some leanings to his way of thinking (ala The Clone Wars) and been forced to choose between Obi and Palp, but ultimately still been a relatable and sympathetic character … THEN got burnt, THEN Palps fucks him the fuck up and he goes full Vader, and we could see that emergence in this series. 

So basically another “it’s a shame the prequels were shit” post. 

 

There's a comic series that is supposed to be canon. They've contradicted a few of the new canon books on screen already though.