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IlyaP

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I tried really hard not to get my hopes up for this and yet I am still disappointed. 

Everyone talking about tonal dissonance is spot on. What kind of show does it want to be? It's not clear. e.g., the scene with Leia being chased by the kidnappers in the forest made me laugh out loud (and not in a good way), but the hung Jedi scene happened in the same episode? I dunno, the mix of dark and light is not meshing. 

I don't think(?) I mind the direction the overall plot is taking, but the execution is not good. 

I hope it improves, but based on Star Wars' live action record in the past 20 years, I'm not holding my breath. Sign me up for some Bad Batch season 2 though. 

ETA: And I'm with everyone who really doesn't really care about continuity or retcons at this point. No it doesn't make sense for Leia to have no real reaction to ol' Ben in ANH, but most of Star Wars' continuity doesn't make sense so I'm just going with it. 

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14 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I actually think we cannot draw that conclusion from ROTS. I mean, Vader is clearly Palpatine's special operative to do clandestine murders and finish off any remaining resistance (Jedi knights, separatist gang who know what the plan was about). But he isn't at Palpatine's side when he proclaims the Galactic Empire - that are Sly Moore and Mas Amedda.

Again, this is entirely misunderstanding why I compared Vader's role to the WH CoS under the "imperial presidency."  The way in which I find him similar has nothing to do with two characters that basically stand there in the films and barely have any lines.  The comparison was more of an offhanded comment that was much more nuanced and even esoteric for anyone that doesn't, ya know, study the presidency for a living.

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5 hours ago, Underfoot said:

I tried really hard not to get my hopes up for this and yet I am still disappointed. 

Everyone talking about tonal dissonance is spot on. What kind of show does it want to be? It's not clear. e.g., the scene with Leia being chased by the kidnappers in the forest made me laugh out loud (and not in a good way), but the hung Jedi scene happened in the same episode? I dunno, the mix of dark and light is not meshing. 

I don't think(?) I mind the direction the overall plot is taking, but the execution is not good. 

This is actually one of the more shocking aspects of this show, just how poor some of the execution is, from a basic technical level. As has been mentioned, the Inquisitors were not great actors, but they weren't alone. The bounty hunters daytime tv bad, even Kumail Nanjiani was less than stellar in this. So performances outside of McGregor and maybe Edgerton were all round not great, but other things that wouldn't seem very important to me suddenly I was noticing.

Such as some of the costumes, the bounty hunters outfits were very much 'low budget sci fi' ideas of what people wear in the future, The Inquisitors looked really daft, especially Grand Inquisitor ( I still don't know what they thought they were going for with that)

The staging of each shot was so obviously greenscreened, with a foreground....nothing... then a background. Made it all feel very claustrophobic. 

I haven't seen too much on the production of the show to know if there were issues due to Covid or it was rushed, but it gives off the sense of a troubled production.

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25 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Kumail Nanjiani was less than stellar in this

I thought Kumail was hilarious, as is the idea of a conman pretending to be a Jedi.  But yeah the production values were definitely subpar at times, especially compared to Mandalorian and even Boba.

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3 minutes ago, DMC said:

I thought Kumail was hilarious, as is the idea of a conman pretending to be a Jedi.  But yeah the production values were definitely subpar at times, especially compared to Mandalorian and even Boba.

He's usually great, but something was off here, like he was trying his hardest but it didn't quite fit. I liked the idea of the character, it's an amusing idea,  but it felt crowbarred in and that didn't help my enjoyment of the scene.

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I just watched the first episodes and my initial takes without reading the 5 or so pages of this thread:

The dialogue/acting is as awful as the prequels, the action was silly, could not care less about seeing a younger Luke and Leia, The 3rd sister’s character is annoying and I’m pretty bored already.

ugh

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I must admit, I'm another who is a bit disappointed so far.

Star Wars continuity has always been a mess, so I'm trying not to hate on that aspect. A lot of it doesn't make sense. But at this point we just have to go with it. It doesn't make any sense that if Vader and the Inquisitors were hunting Obi-Wan that they never look at Tattooine even when they're already there because of rumours of Jedi activity, but then it doesn't make any sense that apparently they're not curious about Bail Organa adopting a kid immediately after pregnant Amidala dies either.

But I did find the writing - both plot and dialogue - a bit uninspired, and the first episode is pretty slow.

Still, now Flea has been in Star Wars so that's a thing.

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I thought it was better than some of ya'll but agree with the comments about tonal dissonance. Still I think McGregor is giving a great performance and I particularly enjoyed the scene that gave Uncle Owen some depth, also, frankly it's nice to be back in a period where I can imagine that the sequel trilogy never happened and there's still light at the end of this dark period.

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Kumail was probably my favorite part of episode 2. Well that and I sort of liked the clever trick Ben pulled, when he got captured. I really like scenes when heroes have to use their wit and ingenuity to survive.

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I haven't watched the second episode - Stranger Things is the priority right now. But I agree with the consensus. The Obi-Wan on Tatooine parts were pretty good, and McGregor's is putting a lot into the role. Everything on Alderaan was pretty bad, though. Huge tonal whiplash, check. Annoying child character, check. Pretty bad acting all around, check. And then yes, there was that chase scene... Like everyone here, I laughed at the kidnapper getting knocked out by that tree. The good news is that the Alderaan scenes really felt like the prequels! If that's what they were going for, they nailed it.

I hope this plotline gets better in future episodes (hey, Flea is here, at least!) but I really don't understand why the showrunners thought a young Leia kidnapping should be the main plot for an Obi-Wan series. Especially since the other big Star Wars show has the exact same story, except better because Baby Yoda is cuter and doesn't talk.

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I don't get the tonal issues - of course Alderaan would be all peaceful and quiet, and Leia would have a shielded life. And if you have a young Leia getting some action - which is a good idea in general - then the actress really nailed the character, because she cannot be a normal child. She must be pretty much exactly the way she is portrayed there.

12 hours ago, Underfoot said:

ETA: And I'm with everyone who really doesn't really care about continuity or retcons at this point. No it doesn't make sense for Leia to have no real reaction to ol' Ben in ANH, but most of Star Wars' continuity doesn't make sense so I'm just going with it. 

Well, actually, they could make this more sense if they actually have Leia to confer or meet with Obi-Wan more often in the times between the show and ANH. If they know each other and know that ... then there would be little to no reason for specific references there. Of course, the message in ANH is pretty formal ... but then, Leia is an Imperial Senator and her mother turned herself into a statue when addressing the Senate as queen.

If you think about the content of the message and Obi-Wan's immediate decision to go to Alderaan one can even draw the tacit conclusion that he knows a lot about the Rebellion than is revealed. Keep in mind that Obi-Wan plans to go there with or without Luke. He is clearly prepared to leave the boy behind should he decided to stay with his aunt and uncle.

That is clearly not what the Obi-Wan in the show would do ... nor is it something we would expect hermit Obi-Wan to do in ANH if he truly had no contact with the Organas for twenty years and felt he should stay on Tatooine to protect Luke.

10 hours ago, DMC said:

Again, this is entirely misunderstanding why I compared Vader's role to the WH CoS under the "imperial presidency."  The way in which I find him similar has nothing to do with two characters that basically stand there in the films and barely have any lines.  The comparison was more of an offhanded comment that was much more nuanced and even esoteric for anyone that doesn't, ya know, study the presidency for a living.

I deliberately omitted references to the offices thing here. If you look at Vader in the movies then all we can say that he is in charge of specific military contingents - there is simply no indication where exactly he stands in the (military) hierarchy. And the indication that he is mainly a special operatives guy is emphasized in ROTS (where he does clandestine murders/secret attacks and his very existence is neither publicly revealed nor addressed) and ANH. In TESB he is the guy in charge of the fleet hunting down the Rebels, but that's not a particularly large fleet, no? And in ROTJ the Emperor sidelines the guy by sending him back to the command ship while keeping other folks in his presence.

I'm not saying he is nothing, I'm just saying we don't really know where exactly he stands. And in context the writers inventing new material for this era should really reflect this ambiguity ... or possibly even depict the complex machinations of Imperial court politics.

7 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Such as some of the costumes, the bounty hunters outfits were very much 'low budget sci fi' ideas of what people wear in the future, The Inquisitors looked really daft, especially Grand Inquisitor ( I still don't know what they thought they were going for with that)

Well, the design of the Inquisitors goes back to Rebels, so they had to fly with it. But I certainly agree that they don't look all that well.

1 hour ago, mormont said:

Star Wars continuity has always been a mess, so I'm trying not to hate on that aspect. A lot of it doesn't make sense. But at this point we just have to go with it. It doesn't make any sense that if Vader and the Inquisitors were hunting Obi-Wan that they never look at Tattooine even when they're already there because of rumours of Jedi activity, but then it doesn't make any sense that apparently they're not curious about Bail Organa adopting a kid immediately after pregnant Amidala dies either.

I'm not sure on what you would base the idea that Vader would want to look for Obi-Wan on Tatooine? The place was Anakin's homeworld, not Obi-Wan's. Obi-Wan has literally no connection to that rock. It was risky for Obi-Wan to hide Luke with Anakin's step-brother, but only because Vader may have decided on a whim to pay them a visit. But there is no reason to assume Vader or the Inquisitors would go look for Obi-Wan specifically on Tatooine.

And the Organas adopting a child is also not suspicious at all. Bail even says in ROTS that he and his wife had often thought about adopting a baby girl, so this is a desire folks knowing or watching/spying on the Organas would know. If they didn't believed Padmé's child survived - which Vader, apparently, never did until he learned who destroyed the Death Star - then there is nothing suspicious about that. And if Palpatine actually knew more than he told his apprentice then, well, Leia Organa being hidden in plain sight makes it rather easy for him recruit her should the need ever arise.

I mean, if we think about the potential of Leia adventures prior to ANH then her time in the Imperial Senate and her direct interaction with Palpatine and his lackeys would be a crucial feature to explore. And one certainly could tell a story there were the Emperor recognizing Leia's potential as a politician and/or her strength in the Force and considering her as a potential Sith asset in the future. He could know or suspect that she is Vader's daughter ... or not. It wouldn't matter. Her strength in the Force alone would trigger his interest. And it was always a stretch to assume that Palpatine never sensed that.

1 hour ago, Poobah said:

I thought it was better than some of ya'll but agree with the comments about tonal dissonance. Still I think McGregor is giving a great performance and I particularly enjoyed the scene that gave Uncle Owen some depth, also, frankly it's nice to be back in a period where I can imagine that the sequel trilogy never happened and there's still light at the end of this dark period.

As I said above somewhere I find it very unpleasant to realize that both Leia and - especially - Luke are utter failures as per the ST. Not only did Luke suck as a Jedi and a teacher, but their imagined victory over the Emperor wasn't even real, and they couldn't even rebuild the Republic they were trying to restore.

As characters with an agenda they are complete jokes now - as are the people who believed in them. Those characters were heroic icons once - now they have been pretty much completely destroyed.

10 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I hope this plotline gets better in future episodes (hey, Flea is here, at least!) but I really don't understand why the showrunners thought a young Leia kidnapping should be the main plot for an Obi-Wan series. Especially since the other big Star Wars show has the exact same story, except better because Baby Yoda is cuter and doesn't talk.

Well, if you want Obi-Wan off this rock then Leia being in danger is the best way to do this. An alternative could be a threat to another Jedi, but that wouldn't work all that well. And technically nobody can track Obi-Wan to Tatooine, since he would hardly return to the place if the Empire had found him there once.

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1 hour ago, sifth said:

Kumail was probably my favorite part of episode 2. Well that and I sort of liked the clever trick Ben pulled, when he got captured. I really like scenes when heroes have to use their wit and ingenuity to survive.

I thought it might have been an interesting twist for Kumail to have turned out to actually be a Jedi, not just a con artist... that he was hiding his Force powers by making it look like he was facing them...

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3 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I thought it might have been an interesting twist for Kumail to have turned out to actually be a Jedi, not just a con artist... that he was hiding his Force powers by making it look like he was facing them...

While that could be fun, one would imagine that the Empire would check out any such conman pretty thoroughly, meaning any such person would expect to be questioned by the Inquisitors eventually ... and that's not something a real Jedi would want.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't get the tonal issues - of course Alderaan would be all peaceful and quiet, and Leia would have a shielded life...

Well, if you want Obi-Wan off this rock then Leia being in danger is the best way to do this. An alternative could be a threat to another Jedi, but that wouldn't work all that well. And technically nobody can track Obi-Wan to Tatooine, since he would hardly return to the place if the Empire had found him there once.

The problem with the tone for me is that it feels like we're moving between a gritty and pretty dark storyline on Tatooine to a kid's movie with Leia on Alderaan. I'm not saying the whole show should be gritty and dark, but it is jarring, imo, to go from Obi Wan being depressed in the desert to Leia telling off her cousin with SPUNK.

As for Leia drawing Obi-Wan off world: yeah, it makes sense. But it just doesn't feel creative. Canon issues aside, do we really need another Skywalker story, this time about Princess Leia as a six year old? I don't mean any disrespect here to the young actress: she's doing the best she can with some pretty weak dialogue and direction, just like Jake Lloyd. It's just the prequel problem that posters we're talking about above. 

(One more unrelated thing: I enjoyed the inquisitors on Tatooine, but I did find their costumes to be very silly. Why do they have steering wheels on their backs?)

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

While that could be fun, one would imagine that the Empire would check out any such conman pretty thoroughly, meaning any such person would expect to be questioned by the Inquisitors eventually ... and that's not something a real Jedi would want.

Yeah. Sure. But that isn't what was going on with that character by the time we meet him.  He was mysterious and hiding and only a few people seem to know where he was. Inquisitors, at that particular point, haven't seemed to care, so why not play the part?  It would have been an interesting twist and, in the frame of the story we've been  shown thus far, it could have worked.

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I found it rather funny that Ben couldn’t keep up with the kid, during the chase sequence. The editing was all over the place for those scenes. One minute Ben would be right next to her, the next he was 5 feet away.

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32 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

(One more unrelated thing: I enjoyed the inquisitors on Tatooine, but I did find their costumes to be very silly. Why do they have steering wheels on their backs?)

Those are their lightsabers - I have a feeling the rotating effect will be even cornier in live action than it was on Rebels.

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1 hour ago, sifth said:

I found it rather funny that Ben couldn’t keep up with the kid, during the chase sequence.

Or the kidnappers.

I'm not really a Star Wars fan, but I am a McGregor fan. And I think he does a really good job with what is thus far an underwhelming script.

The same, unfortunately, can not be said for others. I'm not familiar with all the lore, but what is up with Reva? Is the empire so incompetent that they just allow this loose cannon to scowl and bluster at everyone, even her direct superiors? It's non-stop insubordination, and she's not even terribly effective at her job, so it's perplexing that she's allowed to get away with all of this.

And what were the writers thinking anyway? Anakin wasn't whiny enough, so we'll just make an even more whiny antagonist?

I'll probably give this one more episode, but this is a pretty bad series so far.

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I deliberately omitted references to the offices thing here. If you look at Vader in the movies then all we can say that he is in charge of specific military contingents - there is simply no indication where exactly he stands in the (military) hierarchy. And the indication that he is mainly a special operatives guy is emphasized in ROTS (where he does clandestine murders/secret attacks and his very existence is neither publicly revealed nor addressed) and ANH.

You keep on fixating on Vader not having a public role as if that matters at all to my point, when it doesn't (while obviously who the WH CoS is isn't a secret, the office is not the public face of the administration either). 

And yes, "we don't know for sure" simply due a lack of information, but it's clear in the films that Vader is Palpatine's second in command.  Hell, it's clear even before he becomes his second in command.  It's clear in AotC that Dooku outranks everybody else and is the conduit between Sidious and the Geonosians and the Trade Federation. 

At the beginning of RotS after Dooku is killed, Grievous calls Sidious and the latter reassures him that Dooku's replacement will soon take over -- and I think it's safe to assume would "take care" of Grievous just like he did the Trade Federation if Kenobi hadn't gotten to him first.  It's similarly clear Vader acts as this conduit in Empire and RotJ. 

You can say "he's only in charge of one fleet" in Empire, but he's obviously relied upon to take care of the most important aspect (at least to Palpatine) of the rebellion -- and considering we aren't even made aware of any other fronts in the conflict the viewer is left with the clear impression he's the emperor's second in command.  Indeed, run a poll asking Star Wars viewers who is the emperor's second in command and it's safe to assume the vast majority are gonna answer Vader, because that's what the films clearly imply.  Acting otherwise is just being pedantic or contrarian.

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