Theories about Tower of Joy, House Dayne & Minor Misc...

[UrsaMed]

This is my first time posting here. Hopefully I can add some wild theories in this section? Apologies, if these have already been discussed.

My theories/speculations are based on a combination of other theories and suggestions I have read over the years. The First Five Theories are the most interesting to me, and some version or elements of them could turn out to be true. They include six key people, Lyanna, Rhaegar, Arthur, Ashara, Howland & Ned. These are my main points;

 

1. Lyanna dies of a wound, specifically a war wound, or a combination of a war wound and childbirth.

Lyanna may have had a battle of her own right before her death, either near the Tower of Joy (maybe protecting someone or something), or farther away. It could also be that she was in Rhaegar's ruby covered armour, and Robert Baratheon killed her unknowingly (and ironically).

How she teleported back to the Tower of Joy and Rhaegar went back into his armour, is another issue altogether (maybe Skinchanging/Warging of some sort?).

If Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree, we should assume that maybe GRRM was trying to tell us that she must've had some epic fight/battle of her own, or was much darker in nature, like Arya becoming a assassin.

 

2. Ashara & Lyanna may have given birth and children may have been exchanged.

There are many layers to this one. If we assume the both gave birth to one child, then Lyanna may have given birth to Dany & Ashara may have given birth to Jon (Fathered by Brandon or some other Stark). As members of House Dayne looked more Valyrian, placing Dany with them would have concealed her true identity, eventually growing up in Dorne for a time with the lemon tree & red door, and then somehow travelled to the free cities and placed net to her "brother Viserys". The memory could have been wiped with poisons or shade of the evening?

And then ofcourse, when Ned came to Starfall they exchanged Dany for Jon, who looked more northern and would've been better concealed with the Starks.

If the one or both women had twins, the theory would certainly go into many other directions.

 

3. Rhaegar & Arthur Dayne may have been close enough for "Lightbringer combos".

My main theory is that the core of the secrecy surrounding The Tower of Joy and many other mysteries of this moment involve three people; Lyanna, Rhaegar, & Arthur, with  Howland, Ashara & Ned being secondary observers/reluctant participants in this whole mess. 

I personally believe that there is a possibility that Rhaegar & Arthur may have been lovers, and may have had plans to create "Lightbringer" in some way by using Dawn (sword) and one of them being "Nissa Nissa". Lyanna somehow gets involved with them during the Knight of the Laughing Tree incident, and wanted in on any adventure the two men were upto.

If Rhaegar & Lyanna genuinely had a romance, even then Arthur would have been significantly involved with any secret planning or prophetic dragon ritual they were going to perform.

It also seems that House Dayne may be having their own parallel adventures to The Song of Ice & Fire, maybe called The Song of Night & Dawn?

This may explain why House Dayne is appreciative of Ned keeping things on the down low about the involvement of Arthur, and the ancestral sword being used for blood/fire magic.

 

4. Tower of Joy Fire

A theory I have seen many times is the idea that either wildfire, dragon egg fire, or some combination of fire & blood magic was involved in the downfall of the tower itself, causing most of the bodies to be left near the tower.

I also doubt if any real fight took place between Arthur Dayne & Ned Stark, as the accounts are exclusively from his side.

I also doubt, like the TV Show, there were other women in the tower waiting on Lyanna.

 

5. The White haired woman with a bronze sickle, that Bran sees in his last vision, may have been a Dayne or early non-dragon riding Valyrians (which the Dayne's could also be, even though GRRM has said not Valyrian, but he did not say not proto-Valyrian).

 

6. Essos grows northward after the Grey Waste & Mossovy & joins the Far North of Westeros. Or have a frozen land bridge between.

7. Separation of Ib, Thousand Islands, and Doom of Valyria may have been similar to the Arm of Dorne being shattered by the Children of the Forrest/Ifequevron.

 

What do you all think?

 

[Doven]

Your theories are interesting! Some of them may even be true.

 

1. "Lyanna may have had a battle of her own right before her death, and Robert Baratheon killed her unknowingly (and ironically)."

I like this theory the most. GRRM loves to be mean, so I can totally see Robert killing Lyanna. Agree with the Rubies, But how does she teleport to The tower of Joy?

 

2. "Ashara & Lyanna may have given birth and children may have been exchanged."

Plausible!

 

3. "Rhaegar & Arthur Dayne may have been close enough for "Lightbringer combos"."

Interesting, but we may have to wait till Winds of Winter for any perspectives on either of these men.

 

4. "I also doubt if any real fight took place between Arthur Dayne & Ned Stark, as the accounts are exclusively from his side."

Again, we may just have to wait for Winds of Winter. But I would agree that these men may not have actually physically fought.

 

5. "White haired woman with a bronze sickle"

Your only theory I may have to completely disagree with. It may have been a Valyrian woman, who could have also been Azor Ahai. And over thousands of years, the story changed.

 

6. "Essos & Westeros connect in the north west of Essos"

I would like this to be true, but am also interested in other continents GRRM may have planned for. The story of Sun Chaser captained by Lady Elissa Farman/Alys Westhill, clearly suggests the world is round, and other bits of information in The World of Ice & Fire also suggest the same. But how big this spherical planetos is, remains unknown.

 

7. "Separation of Ib, Thousand Islands, and Doom of Valyria may have been similar to the Arm of Dorne being shattered by the Children of the Forrest/Ifequevron."

Perhaps, Perhaps, Perhaps!

 

 

[Finley McLeod]

49 minutes ago, Doven said:

I like this theory the most. GRRM loves to be mean, so I can totally see Robert killing Lyanna. Agree with the Rubies, But how does she teleport to The tower of Joy?

I also like the theory.  I believe it is a skin changer's ability.  There might be a way to deal with distance.  Nymeria the wolf is affected by Arya's anger and madness from Braavos.  The person in Rhaegar's armor, even if it was Rhaegar, was somehow bonded and controlled by Lyanna.  She was lending her strength to his like Summer did for Bran during his illness.  The mortal would also came back and got Lyanna. 

[Finley McLeod]

On 5/27/2022 at 11:52 PM, UrsaMed said:

2. Ashara & Lyanna may have given birth and children may have been exchanged.

There are many layers to this one. If we assume the both gave birth to one child, then Lyanna may have given birth to Dany & Ashara may have given birth to Jon (Fathered by Brandon or some other Stark). As members of House Dayne looked more Valyrian, placing Dany with them would have concealed her true identity, eventually growing up in Dorne for a time with the lemon tree & red door, and then somehow travelled to the free cities and placed net to her "brother Viserys". The memory could have been wiped with poisons or shade of the evening?

And then ofcourse, when Ned came to Starfall they exchanged Dany for Jon, who looked more northern and would've been better concealed with the Starks.

If the one or both women had twins, the theory would certainly go into many other directions.

The Tower of Joy only has one link to Dany.  The 3 Kingsguard fits nicely with the Child Of Three. 

Jon is the son of Ashara Dayne until proven otherwise. 

[Finley McLeod]

On 5/27/2022 at 11:52 PM, UrsaMed said:

3. Rhaegar & Arthur Dayne may have been close enough for "Lightbringer combos".

My main theory is that the core of the secrecy surrounding The Tower of Joy and many other mysteries of this moment involve three people; Lyanna, Rhaegar, & Arthur, with  Howland, Ashara & Ned being secondary observers/reluctant participants in this whole mess. 

I personally believe that there is a possibility that Rhaegar & Arthur may have been lovers, and may have had plans to create "Lightbringer" in some way by using Dawn (sword) and one of them being "Nissa Nissa". Lyanna somehow gets involved with them during the Knight of the Laughing Tree incident, and wanted in on any adventure the two men were upto.

If Rhaegar & Lyanna genuinely had a romance, even then Arthur would have been significantly involved with any secret planning or prophetic dragon ritual they were going to perform.

It also seems that House Dayne may be having their own parallel adventures to The Song of Ice & Fire, maybe called The Song of Night & Dawn?

This may explain why House Dayne is appreciative of Ned keeping things on the down low about the involvement of Arthur, and the ancestral sword being used for blood/fire magic.

Jon is the son of Ashara Dayne until proven otherwise.  It may be disproven in the future.  In which case, the next choice is Arthur + Lyanna = Jon Snow.  That gives him the right to use Dawn.  Although being the new Nightsking doesn't fit with him inheriting the sword.  Maybe he's just a Stark after all.  None of that rules out a triangle of Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Arthur.  For that matter, a triangle of Ned, Ashara, and Brandon.  Then it circles back to Dany being the Child of Three which can mean the daughter of a love triangle.  It is possible and damn likely that King Aerys was sampling Ashara from time to time.  A love triangle existed between Aerys, Ashara, and Rhaella.  Rhaella grew tired of it and sent Ashara packing.  With no Ashara around, the king finally got his wife pregnant and they produced Dany.  The chronology is close and she was conceived near the time of Rhaegar's death.  The dynasty was in danger.  The Targaryen females carry the dragon genes and it matters little who Dany's father is. 

[Craving Peaches]

13 hours ago, Finley McLeod said:

Although being the new Nightsking doesn't fit with him inheriting the sword.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim? There are certain parallels with Jon's story and the story of the Night's king but nothing that seems to suggest he will be the new Night's King, not when he's working so hard against the Others and Melisandre is right there to revive him if he's dead.

[Khal Rhaego Targaryen]

Lyanna is probably Jon's mother, but Rhaegar is definitely not the father. Rhaegar's third secret child is Dany and the mother is Ashara, it is known!

[Doven]

On 8/30/2022 at 11:53 AM, Khal Rhaego Targaryen said:

Lyanna is probably Jon's mother, but Rhaegar is definitely not the father. Rhaegar's third secret child is Dany and the mother is Ashara, it is known!

Agree that Rhaegar is not Jon's father.

But, Rhaegar + Ashara = ??? 

Literally nothing about the two exists, but intriguing.

[TheLastWolf]

14 minutes ago, Doven said:

Agree that Rhaegar is not Jon's father.

 

crackpot of yore