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NBA Finals - The Problem with Steph Curry


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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Ty, if you pick KD over Jokic right now, then you are out of your mind. 

KD's skillset translates better in the playoffs, he's more proven and the Nuggets were at their best when Murray was their lead dog.

Also, here are the two contracts going forward:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/brooklyn-nets/kevin-durant-2717/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/denver-nuggets/nikola-jokic-15393/

Edited by Tywin et al.
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Posted (edited)

His skills set didn't translate at playoff level this year. He was fucking owned.

Also Jokic clearly isnt a complete cock. Why would you pay top money and asset for someone who you would be constantly worried will spit the dummy and fuck up team chemistry? Talent is half the equation. 

 

Edited by BigFatCoward
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How exactly was Murray their "lead dog"? Who do you think fed him the ball for most of what he'd done that season? If your argument is "but they didn't get to the conference final without him", show me a team that went that far in the playoffs with only one star on the roster.

As far as I remember, Murray was never even close to the MVP conversation and Jokic won it twice in a row, once without any other star player on his team, including "top dog" Murray. Jokic basically carried injury depleted Denver squad to playoffs. Expecting him to do more was not realistic, plain and simple.

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1 minute ago, baxus said:

How exactly was Murray their "lead dog"? Who do you think fed him the ball for most of what he'd done that season? If your argument is "but they didn't get to the conference final without him", show me a team that went that far in the playoffs with only one star on the roster.

As far as I remember, Murray was never even close to the MVP conversation and Jokic won it twice in a row, once without any other star player on his team, including "top dog" Murray. Jokic basically carried injury depleted Denver squad to playoffs. Expecting him to do more was not realistic, plain and simple.

Murray was incredible in their comeback against the Clippers in the bubble, putting the team on his back and I think was then quite spent and didn't do as well against the Lakers.

He didn't have a great start to the following season and was unfortunately injured soon after he started to heat up and hasn't played since. The Nuggets are betting on getting peak Murray back but it's unclear if he could reach that form consistently in addition to now having to recover from an injury and time off the game.

_

Luka got to the finals, although he did just as well against the Warriors as Jokic did. I'm still in shock at the collapse of the Suns.

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The funny thing is that the main reason the Nets are in such a dismal situation is because they traded for Harden.  If they had just stuck with Durant + Irving, then they would still have all their draft picks and could enter this rebuild without fear.  Hell, if they could get a haul for Durant they could rebuild quite rapidly.  But because of the horrible Harden trade (which Durant lobbied for, no doubt), the Nets are missing a ton of 1st rounders this decade and cannot realistically do a teardown for several years. 

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Posted (edited)

Plus let's not forget, great as KD has been in the past, your not trading for 28 year old Kevin.

You'd be getting post torn ACL, ages 35, 36, 37, etc. Kevin. 

A very expensive KD that might play 50 games if your lucky.

Edited by DireWolfSpirit
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Yeah, I think you can make the argument that Durant is still - or can be - just as good as Jokic is, but just based on the ages Jokic is a far more reliable franchise cornerstone.  Don't think any GM in their right mind would dispute that.

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12 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

His skills set didn't translate at playoff level this year. He was fucking owned.

He was, but there's a pretty easy explanation. The team around him was poor and Boston made it their mission to just stop him. And they got away with a ton of fouling which was really lame.

Also worth noting that while they did sweep the Nets, Boston's total margin of victory was less than 20 points. That can't be very common.

4 hours ago, baxus said:

How exactly was Murray their "lead dog"? Who do you think fed him the ball for most of what he'd done that season? If your argument is "but they didn't get to the conference final without him", show me a team that went that far in the playoffs with only one star on the roster.

The Dallas Lukas.

Quote

As far as I remember, Murray was never even close to the MVP conversation and Jokic won it twice in a row, once without any other star player on his team, including "top dog" Murray. Jokic basically carried injury depleted Denver squad to playoffs. Expecting him to do more was not realistic, plain and simple.

No he wasn't, but Jokic really wasn't either. And then he took a leap and became one of the best players in the world. That said I still think he needs a dynamic scorer along side him to ever win a title. Denver was at their best when Murray was throwing up multiple 40 plus games in the playoffs a few years ago. 

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3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

No he wasn't, but Jokic really wasn't either. And then he took a leap and became one of the best players in the world. That said I still think he needs a dynamic scorer along side him to ever win a title. Denver was at their best when Murray was throwing up multiple 40 plus games in the playoffs a few years ago.

Every MVP was nowhere near MVP conversation until he suddenly was. Jokic did hit that level while Murray still hasn't. Bear in mind that I'm not saying Murray can't or won't get to that level, just that he hasn't yet. No denying Murray's a great player and that he was very useful for Denver. I'm not trying to take anything away from him but it's not as if Jokic did nothing in that playoff run and Murray carried the team. Jokic would be the last to say it, but the truth is he's the team best player, team star, the team leader. Of course he needs a dynamic scorer alongside him, as one of the best passers in the league his game is significantly improved when he has someone to pass to. 

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46 minutes ago, baxus said:

Every MVP was nowhere near MVP conversation until he suddenly was. Jokic did hit that level while Murray still hasn't. Bear in mind that I'm not saying Murray can't or won't get to that level, just that he hasn't yet. No denying Murray's a great player and that he was very useful for Denver. I'm not trying to take anything away from him but it's not as if Jokic did nothing in that playoff run and Murray carried the team. Jokic would be the last to say it, but the truth is he's the team best player, team star, the team leader. Of course he needs a dynamic scorer alongside him, as one of the best passers in the league his game is significantly improved when he has someone to pass to. 

We’re not really saying anything different then. You can probably win a title with Jokic as your best player, but not necessarily your first scoring option. That’s not maximizing out his skillset.

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24 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Pistons face Portland tommorow night. Pretty anxious to see what this Sharpe feller can do.

Same… and he came from my team. :bang:

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Posted (edited)
On 7/5/2022 at 1:50 PM, DireWolfSpirit said:

I doubt you'd see Toronto give up Barnes on his rook contract to take on KD for the last few years of his bloated contract.

As I've maintained earlier I wouldn't take on any of these contract breakers unless there coming with multiple firsts.

IOW's, Brooklyn needs to be the payer if you want us to take your toxic assets.

Eta: They have zero leverage in any Kyrie or KD trade.

As I suspected, Bleacher Report reporting Raptors are a "NO WAY" to a Durant for Barnes swap-

 The Toronto Raptors are unwilling to trade Scottie Barnes in a package to the Brooklyn Nets for Kevin Durant, multiple sources tell Jake Fischer of Bleacher Report.

Edited by DireWolfSpirit
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38 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

As I suspected, Bleacher Report reporting Raptors are a "NO WAY" to a Durant for Barnes swap-

 The Toronto Raptors are unwilling to trade Scottie Barnes in a package to the Brooklyn Nets for Kevin Durant, multiple sources tell Jake Fischer of Bleacher Report.

I think that's a mistake, assuming KD would be bought in and they could keep their other key players. Barnes had a nice rookie year, but I can't see him ever becoming anything close to what KD is right now. Yes, I get his window isn't that large, but a team like the Raptors is going to have to gamble and strike in small windows to win Championships. It worked recently, why not try again?

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Well your Wolves may be the current "all in" team that is attempting this strategy.

It's what we are aspiring to get to with Detroit as well, develop the young talent and make the big acquisition with our cap space when everyone is up to level and so forth. 

It's really the only play for small markets, difficult but possible.

 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Well your Wolves may be the current "all in" team that is attempting this strategy.

It's what we are aspiring to get to with Detroit as well, develop the young talent and make the big acquisition with our cap space when everyone is up to level and so forth. 

It's really the only play for small markets, difficult but possible.

 

Exactly. I don't love how much we gave up, but I think the roster fit is very interesting. We now have a starting lineup with three All-Stars, two All-NBA players and two young players, one who projects to also be at worst a guy who makes a few All-Star games and the other being a really nice 3&D who was worth losing two firsts to keep. That's a nice team to build around going forward, and I'm guessing Russell will be gone after a year or two. With Gobert, if it does fail, oh well, we tried making a big swing, and at that time Ant will still be just 24 and hitting his second contract. If it works out and Ant takes that next step, maybe we're contenders, but at least we're respectable. It's worth noting this team is basically as old as I am and has been out of the first round literally the one time they had a League MVP. A period of respectability would be a massive improvement. You saw how those fans acted after winning a freaking play-in game. It sucks rooting for this team.

Edited by Tywin et al.
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Might explain the Gobert trade cost:

Quote

The Brooklyn Nets are seeking a substantial package in exchange for star forward Kevin Durant after he requested to be traded last week. A recent report gives a glimpse at Brooklyn's high asking price.

Yahoo's Vincent Goodwill told Chris Haynes on his Posted Up podcast that the Nets offered the Minnesota Timberwolves Durant in exchange for both their star players and a bevy of draft picks.

"I'd heard that Brooklyn came to Minnesota and said, 'We want Karl-Anthony Towns, we want the Ant-Man [Anthony Edwards], and we want four draft picks,'" Goodwill said.

The Timberwolves obviously turned down the deal. Both Towns and Edwards are No. 1 overall draft picks, and Minnesota appears to be committed to building around them. The team acquired star center and three-time Defensive Player of the Year Rudy Gobert from the Utah Jazz in a blockbuster trade last week.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10041320-kevin-durant-trade-rumors-nets-asked-t-wolves-for-towns-edwards-4-1st-round-picks

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