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NBA Finals - The Problem with Steph Curry


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On 7/6/2022 at 6:24 PM, Rhom said:

Same… and he came from my team. :bang:

Sharpe made it 6 minutes before checking out for the night, claimed he had a owwie.

He was -5 (+/-) for those 6 minutes before he ran off the court:lmao:

 

 

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Just now, BigFatCoward said:

Can players refuse to be traded? 'Fuck off, i'm not going to Cleveland, Utah, Minesota' etc. 

Depends on their contract.

Beal (Wizards) just signed his contract and they said he has a no trade provision in it.

Not every player has that option though and you have to have been in the league a certain amount of seasons to even be qualified to negotiate for it.

I'm sure it's spelled out in the CBA.

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On 7/7/2022 at 3:56 AM, Tywin et al. said:

I think that's a mistake, assuming KD would be bought in and they could keep their other key players. Barnes had a nice rookie year, but I can't see him ever becoming anything close to what KD is right now. Yes, I get his window isn't that large, but a team like the Raptors is going to have to gamble and strike in small windows to win Championships. It worked recently, why not try again?

They probably just would much rather trade Anunoby and Siakam. Barnes is their future, and would be a great pairing with KD.

8 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Thats a ridiculous ask of course.

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4 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Sharpe made it 6 minutes before checking out for the night, claimed he had a owwie.

He was -5 (+/-) for those 6 minutes before he ran off the court:lmao:

 

 

I was going to stay up for it; but sounds like I didn’t miss anything.

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4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Can players refuse to be traded? 'Fuck off, i'm not going to Cleveland, Utah, Minesota' etc. 

There's a very real chance the Nets are going to push back and not trade KD. It will be very interesting to see what happens if they do. Personally I think they should get rid of both of them, but who knows. Trade Kyrie and Harris for Westbrook and two firsts and flip KD to NO for Ingram and five or six firsts. Every side can live with those outcomes.

50 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

They probably just would much rather trade Anunoby and Siakam. Barnes is their future, and would be a great pairing with KD.

Thats a ridiculous ask of course.

But by keeping Barnes you're trying to play for both today and tomorrow with out maximizing either. That usually comes back to bite teams in the ass.

And yes, that trade ask is insane, but it shows just how much they want for KD and they're probably not going to move off of that anytime soon. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

There's a very real chance the Nets are going to push back and not trade KD. It will be very interesting to see what happens if they do. Personally I think they should get rid of both of them, but who knows. Trade Kyrie and Harris for Westbrook and two firsts and flip KD to NO for Ingram and five or six firsts. Every side can live with those outcomes.

 

But if I am New Orleans, Ingram is the one guy on my roster I really want to keep so I can have a spectacular pairing with Durant. I would far more easily throw in Zion ( if that is even possible now) or anyone else, but Durant together with the guy who is finally coming into his own as a Durant 2.0 would be lethal.

BTW I do think the Nets are going to have to scale back their demand. I actually doubt they will get what Utah got for Gobert which is really an insane haul of picks and role players. The problem is that any team that wants Durant can only do so without gutting their roster and the Nets probably understand that, and yet also really want a nice package in return. To me it seems fair to expect one great young/youngish player in return, and a whole load of picks, but certainly not more than what Utah got for Gobert which was an extreme outlier.

And once they have done a deal, dealing Kyrie to the Lakers and somehow ending up with the 2027 and 2029 pick would not be a bad outcome there either considering he is expiring and then leaving anyway. I do not, at all, buy these tales of the guys possible returning to play for Brooklyn in October.

Edited by Calibandar
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10 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

That's fucking disgusting. 

Huh?  Negotiating no-trade clauses in their contracts is disgusting?  I'm genuinely confused as to why. 

This is common practice for veteran players in the NBA, NFL, and MLB.  MLB even has what's called "10 and 5 rights," where if a player has accrued 10 years of service time and been with the same team for the last five years they can veto any trade proposal (that includes themselves, of course).

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2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Huh?  Negotiating no-trade clauses in their contracts is disgusting?  I'm genuinely confused as to why. 

This is common practice for veteran players in the NBA, NFL, and MLB.  MLB even has what's called "10 and 5 rights," where if a player has accrued 10 years of service time and been with the same team for the last five years they can veto any trade proposal (that includes themselves, of course).

No. That someone can just be called into the managers office and told 'fuck off, uproot your kids and family' and there is nothing you can do about it. Premier league footballers can't be 'compelled' to move against their will. 

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Just now, BigFatCoward said:

No. That someone can just be called into the managers office and told 'fuck off, uproot your kids and family' and there is nothing you can do about it.

Ah, gotcha, sorry for misunderstanding.  Well then yeah, you really wouldn't like how the MLB treats their players for the six years before they reach free agency (let alone before that when they're in the minors).

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Just now, BigFatCoward said:

No. That someone can just be called into the managers office and told 'fuck off, uproot your kids and family' and there is nothing you can do about it. Premier league footballers can't be 'compelled' to move against their will. 

Oh.  The other side is what you're saying.

Well, that's just how things work.  Its a business.  They know they can be cut or traded at any time.  Things have swung quite a bit to empower players these days, but even Babe Ruth got traded for a bologna sandwich back in the day.

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Just now, DMC said:

Ah, gotcha, sorry for misunderstanding.  Well then yeah, you really wouldn't like how the MLB treats their players for the six years before they reach free agency (let alone before that when they're in the minors).

I hope he doesn't find out that Free Agency is really a fairly recent addition to the CBAs of all the major sports!  :lol: 

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Posted (edited)

And btw, Curt Flood deserves to get his spot in CoopTown, but that's the mlb thread I guess.

The last 2 days, stories running on how the Nets ain't getting the haul for either of their belladonnas they thought would be available.

There's very limited market for the risk teams feel theyd take for either currently.

Eta: Teams are describing the Nets asking price as "A Gigantic Gulf in any deal they'd be interested in paying lol.

Edited by DireWolfSpirit
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2 hours ago, Calibandar said:

But if I am New Orleans, Ingram is the one guy on my roster I really want to keep so I can have a spectacular pairing with Durant. I would far more easily throw in Zion ( if that is even possible now) or anyone else, but Durant together with the guy who is finally coming into his own as a Durant 2.0 would be lethal.

Why? Ingram is an all around lesser version of KD and he would be redundant along side him. Zion has a far greater upside and he and KD would work really well together in theory.

Idk if I'd trade Zion straight up for KD. I wonder if Memphis fans would trade Ja for him.

Quote

BTW I do think the Nets are going to have to scale back their demand. I actually doubt they will get what Utah got for Gobert which is really an insane haul of picks and role players. The problem is that any team that wants Durant can only do so without gutting their roster and the Nets probably understand that, and yet also really want a nice package in return. To me it seems fair to expect one great young/youngish player in return, and a whole load of picks, but certainly not more than what Utah got for Gobert which was an extreme outlier.

And once they have done a deal, dealing Kyrie to the Lakers and somehow ending up with the 2027 and 2029 pick would not be a bad outcome there either considering he is expiring and then leaving anyway. I do not, at all, buy these tales of the guys possible returning to play for Brooklyn in October.

Brooklyn should play hardball and make them return if they can't get a deal they like. Teams need to stand up for themselves. The Nets are here in part because they were complete doormats for these two guys. 

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I think that in the end the Nets are gonna get approximately the same as what the Jazz got for Gobert.  Probably a bit better players and a bit worse draft picks.  Which is ridiculous, Durant is way more valuable than Gobert, but thems the breaks.  If they'd been smarter they could have gotten that haul of picks from Minnesota plus a better set of players (but not KAT or Edwards).  But they're being greedy and asking way too much for Durant.  Did they call up the Warriors and ask for Curry + 4 1sts? 

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

I think that in the end the Nets are gonna get approximately the same as what the Jazz got for Gobert.  Probably a bit better players and a bit worse draft picks.  Which is ridiculous, Durant is way more valuable than Gobert, but thems the breaks.  If they'd been smarter they could have gotten that haul of picks from Minnesota plus a better set of players (but not KAT or Edwards).  But they're being greedy and asking way too much for Durant.  Did they call up the Warriors and ask for Curry + 4 1sts? 

Hey!  Curry only has one finals MVP... Durant has two!

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2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Why? Ingram is an all around lesser version of KD and he would be redundant along side him. Zion has a far greater upside and he and KD would work really well together in theory.

Idk if I'd trade Zion straight up for KD. I wonder if Memphis fans would trade Ja for him.

 

I dont think Ingram would be remotely redundant next to KD, in the same way that I think Barnes would also make a great pairing with KD. Ingram and KD together is lethal.

I would definitely trade Zion for Durant, and I would certainly sooner trade Zion than Ingram given what's been on display.

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Brooklyn should play hardball and make them return if they can't get a deal they like. Teams need to stand up for themselves. The Nets are here in part because they were complete doormats for these two guys. 

Meh. Too late for that, all the Nets can do now is get the best deal possible, and not drag this out for ages.

They need to get a haul thats reasonable and start over with Simmons, the new star they will get etc.

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1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

I dont think Ingram would be remotely redundant next to KD, in the same way that I think Barnes would also make a great pairing with KD. Ingram and KD together is lethal.

Barnes' game is different thought and I agree those two would pair well if Barnes continues to grow (but the downside is he will still be a pup when KD's prime window is likely closed). I don't see Ingram and KD as a lethal combo. Zion and KD otoh has so much possibility.

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I would definitely trade Zion for Durant, and I would certainly sooner trade Zion than Ingram given what's been on display.

You're really that low on him, despite what we saw when he was healthy? Point Zion was legit and having KD makes the lane that much more wide open for him to attack. Also, Zion's ceiling is sky high, again, when healthy. Ingram is fully formed at this point and while he's a nice player, he'll never be what Zion could be. I don't see a team with Ingram as the second best player making deep playoff pushes.

Quote

Meh. Too late for that, all the Nets can do now is get the best deal possible, and not drag this out for ages.

They need to get a haul thats reasonable and start over with Simmons, the new star they will get etc.

Sure, but the best deal right now probably isn't the best deal they can get overall. They're in no rush at the current moment and who knows, maybe they can get the two to give it a try if Simmons comes back. There may still be a sliver of hope this can all be repaired and that's honestly the Nets best option, even if that means dealing with KD's mild BS and Kyrie's next galaxy BS.

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