Dragons and Blood of the Dragon

[FourRavensBlackOnWhite]

On 6/14/2022 at 12:18 PM, John Suburbs said:

So only the most self-absorbed, narcissistic people can be ambitious? Tywin, whose duty has always been to his house, was not ambitious when he took over half the kingdom? Robert wasn't when he toppled a dynasty? Aegon I was not acting in the interests of his house or his family when he conquered Westeros?

And all of Cersei's actions are only to benefit herself, not out of a desire to protect her children like she says? Daario has no sense of duty to Dany? She's just a means to empower himself? Brown Ben is not acting out of duty to the Second Sons, just himself? 

Your point on Tywin is fair. He is both ambitious and dutiful.

Robert, Cersei, and Brown Ben all are acting without any duty to a higher cause, only themselves. If you can read Cersei's chapters and believe she is doing anything to benefit her children I would love to see it. It's all about her; her power, her appearance, her time in the sun, all at the expense of poor Tommen who she claims to want to support.

From what I can tell we were having a discussion on whether or not Quentyn was ambitious, and I think maybe I used the wrong word.

Ambition: a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work.

This does seem to define Quentyn's actions, even if they were (by your own admission) spawned by lesser emotions like fear of shame or vanity.

I suppose my theory should use the words Aggression, Violence, and Strength. Point taken

[John Suburbs]

17 hours ago, FourRavensBlackOnWhite said:

Your point on Tywin is fair. He is both ambitious and dutiful.

Robert, Cersei, and Brown Ben all are acting without any duty to a higher cause, only themselves. If you can read Cersei's chapters and believe she is doing anything to benefit her children I would love to see it. It's all about her; her power, her appearance, her time in the sun, all at the expense of poor Tommen who she claims to want to support.

From what I can tell we were having a discussion on whether or not Quentyn was ambitious, and I think maybe I used the wrong word.

Ambition: a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work.

This does seem to define Quentyn's actions, even if they were (by your own admission) spawned by lesser emotions like fear of shame or vanity.

I suppose my theory should use the words Aggression, Violence, and Strength. Point taken

Eh, was Ben acting for himself when he ditched Dany? Or was he doing what he thought was best for the company? Does Cersei want power just for herself, or is she trying to protect her children, and the realm? Was Robert trying to gain the throne, or rescue Lyanna? Like everything, it's nuanced.

So yeah, ambition-wise, I don't see Quent as different from anyone else. He was foolhardy, but so was Doran for sending him on this crazy scheme.