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The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power


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47 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Yup, because he considered it impractical, in a self-deprecating way.

That's your reading of the statement, surely. Given his remarks about the "deplorable cultus" and so on, he had become very down the idea of those "other minds" filling in the blanks because the popularity of LotR had revealed that what a lot of people came up with was antithetical to what he intended to convey. His original concept for a grand English mythology that others could play with changed a lot... and even the changed thing did not survive first contact with the actual "others".

 Swann, CT, and Baynes were not creating new material, they were setting their "hands" to depicting (musically and in art) what Tolkien had created, so sure, others doing what he couldn't in terms of art and music and so on was fine, but they were adding nothing new to his world. (And even there he had his issues, re: Baynes!) Payne and McKay are being misleading when they use that quote, as if Tolkien is somehow approving from beyond the grave. The unvarnished truth is that Amazon has invested way too much money into the project to care about canon minutiae.

Edited by Ran
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Well, it certainly looks expensive. You can see the money on screen. 

I'm still neither here or there with it. One thing that gives me pause is the Trees and, what I honestly wondered, anther shot that could be the Oath of Feanor? They surely don't have the rights to that material? And I'm not sure what purpose First Age stuff even really has here... unless it's going to open with a Silmarillion highlights reel? I find that unconvincing. 

So yeah, lots of fancy production values. Some interesting design choices.

Not entirely sure what the writing will be like. They're not giving much to go on in the way of story. I saw someone say it just sounds like a "generic retread" of LOTR what with the "evil returning and nobody knows" angle, and can't say I disagree based on how Amazon's marketing it.

Anyone else find it weird how aesthetically akin to The Hobbit films it feels?

 

 

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I am well and truly squeeing about this one. Unlike the previous, it actually feels like Middle-earth.

I'm pretty sure 2:01 is the Oath of Feanor in all its glory, while 1:12 is either a premonition of the Downfall of Numenor - or (as I think more likely) an underwater shot of corpses at the First Kinslaying.

It really really looks like we're going to see Mad Uncle Feanor. 

 

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1 minute ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

Would be hilarious considering that Elrond did see the War of Wrath while it is questionable with Galadriel

Galadriel did, however, see the First Kinslaying at Alqualonde, which Elrond did not. I think those are floating corpses underwater.

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20 minutes ago, Ran said:

That's your reading of the statement, surely. Given his remarks about the "deplorable cultus" and so on, he had become very down the idea of those "other minds" filling in the blanks because the popularity of LotR had revealed that what a lot of people came up with was antithetical to what he intended to convey. His original concept for a grand English mythology that others could play with changed a lot... and even the changed thing did not survive first contact with the actual "others".

 Swann, CT, and Baynes were not creating new material, they were setting their "hands" to depicting (musically and in art) what Tolkien had created, so sure, others doing what he couldn't in terms of art and music and so on was fine, but they were adding nothing new to his world. (And even there he had his issues, re: Baynes!) Payne and McKay are being misleading when they use that quote, as if Tolkien is somehow approving from beyond the grave. The unvarnished truth is that Amazon has invested way too much money into the project to care about canon minutiae.

It's a very British sense of humour, to insult yourself in a very dry way, and Tolkien did that a lot in his writings (whilst also getting incredibly irritated when anyone else did it to him). He came up with the idea of other people getting involved in creating Middle-earth material and then he calls the idea absurd because he thinks it's ultimately impractical (certainly from a legal perspective), and he knows deep down he'd get annoyed with other people doing things in Middle-earth he'd disagree with.

Tolkien was also fairly inconsistent in a lot of things: spending a lot of time angrily decrying industrialisation, the internal combustion engine and aircraft ("NOT A PENNY FOR CONCORDE!" as he wrote on his tax returns in the 1960s) and then forgetting about all of that and buying a car and ragging it around the countryside around Brighton to his own delight.

When it came to adaptations, Tolkien's position was very clear: "cash or kudos." In the absence of a film script or outline that could command his full respect - which was unlikely to ever happen an the Beatles idea seems to have been the final straw for him on that score - he'd settle for a ton of cash for him and his family. I suspect he'd consider Amazon to be a deeply amoral company, but he'd also consider the good that his family could do with the $250 million they received from them (the Tolkien Estate is engaged in a lot of charitable endeavours).

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2 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Galadriel did, however, see the First Kinslaying at Alqualonde, which Elrond did not. I think those are floating corpses underwater.

I hadn't realized that was water on my first view, but you may be right. I'm not sure about the red palette. Are they saying that's how the world looked like after the Trees were destroyed and before the sun and the moon rose?

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5 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I hadn't realized that was water on my first view, but you may be right. I'm not sure about the red palette. Are they saying that's how the world looked like after the Trees were destroyed and before the sun and the moon rose?

I'm not sure if the red light is supposed to be literal (red lamps on the quay?) adding to the figurative symbolism of Elves spilling blood. In context, it might just be to highlight the grim memory Galadriel is sharing.

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4 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Galadriel did, however, see the First Kinslaying at Alqualonde, which Elrond did not. I think those are floating corpses underwater.

That would be weird though. If it is from the perspective of someone looking up, then it is seems like a there are also buildings underwater

https://imgur.com/a/Hun02qU

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Throwing money around for the sake of visual effects is one of the least impressive things a show can accomplish. Five years from now the visual effects of this show will seem horribly outdated, even on television in all likelihood.

With every bit of information and teaser released, this is increasingly looking like some contemptible, mindless blockbuster that holds little interest in characterization, nuance, and, ya know, a good plot, and instead puts all its chips onto flashy spectacle.

What a waste. Who can say if Lord of the Rings will shame itself to the extent of Wheel of Time, but it's not looking good.

Edited by IFR
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1 minute ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

That would be weird though. If it is from the perspective of someone looking up, then it is seems like a there are also buildings underwater

https://imgur.com/a/Hun02qU

Fair point. I've seen plenty of people arguing it's anticipating the Downfall for that very reason.

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14 minutes ago, Werthead said:

he knows deep down he'd get annoyed with other people doing things in Middle-earth he'd disagree with.

I mean, it isn't deep down. He already knew it very well by this point.

As to the rest, yes, the monetary benefits are nice, but that's why McKay and Payne are being foolish using that quote -- they should surely realize Tolkien would hate most everything about what they're doing, so trying to use an out-of-context quote to justify their deviations is a fool's errand. The honest truth, again, is money talks. It talked for Tolkien when he signed the deal on the rights, when he was trying to look out for his family, and it talked for Amazon when it paid boatloads of money. 

 

@The Marquis de Leech Yes. I mean, we're talking Book of Lost Tales stuff, back in the late 1910s and early 1920s. A lot changed in his life and in his views.

Edited by Ran
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3 minutes ago, IFR said:

Throwing money around for the sake of visual effects is one of the least impressive things a show can accomplish. Five years from now the visual effects of this show will seem horribly outdated, even on television in all likelihood.

With every bit of information and teaser released, this is increasingly looking like some contemptible, mindless blockbuster that holds little interest in characterization, nuance, and, ya know, a good plot, and instead puts all its chips onto flashy spectacle.

What a waste. Who can say if Lord of the Rings will shame itself to the extent of Wheel of Time, but it's not looking good.

It's a two and a half minute trailer. Flashy spectacle is the point.

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3 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

It's a two and a half minute trailer. Flashy spectacle is the point.

Flashy spectacle is the low hanging fruit of Marvel and Star Wars shows. It needn't be what is emphasized.

I'm highly suspicious that there's greater depth here. By all means indicate where the writers have at any point tried to show that depth is what they are driving for, via teasers or otherwise (interviews, etc).

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14 minutes ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

That would be weird though. If it is from the perspective of someone looking up, then it is seems like a there are also buildings underwater

https://imgur.com/a/Hun02qU

I think the camera is sitting below the water, look up past the corpses and towards the semi-obscured buildings on the surface.

I'll be honest that the indication of water is pretty minimal. I thought the red light was something to do with Sauron and the elves were bodies hoisted in the air by some force.

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Looking at it frame by frame, yeah, definitely a camera under water looking upwards. It definitely seems like Galadriel took a look in her/a mirror and had a glimpse of that future. I suppose that's what will be part of her motivation to go to Númenor, to try and avert that.

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9 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I think the camera is sitting below the water, look up past the corpses and towards the semi-obscured buildings on the surface.

The camera is definitely below the water, but look on the corpse on the upper right

https://imgur.com/a/qi5UFmf

It floats high above the camera and above a good chunck of the building on the right

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Bleh, I would be interested in it if it wasn't LOTR, but because it's LOTR I can't get over young Elrond suddenly lacking the gift of foresight, young Galadriel being a warrior queen and hobbits harfoots playing a role in events before the third age. 

If the meteor man is Gandalf than it's such a lack of subtlety. "Look, see, this is why Gandalf likes hobbits so much, because they took care of him after he fell in the village!". No, Gandalf liked hobbits in LOTR cause he had the insight to see their inner strength when no one else would; we don't need you ruining it with some Disney Star Wars-esque unnecessary origin story.

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