UK Politics - Caesar: Most senators didn’t stab me, so all good!

[Spockydog]

It's on, lads and lasses! Let's fucking get intae them!

 

[Raja]

These TERFs and Transphobes literally have nothing better to do with their lives than make things harder from trans women. Ugh.

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

maybe in that case she should have attended group rape counselling session for Terfs and not one that clearly states that the group meetings can be attended by all women including transwomen.  this is in the handbook they are given before attending and they are specifically told this in person.

Or maybe if a Terf session is not available then ask for one on one counselling?

Or are you suggesting raped Transwomen should attend sessions with Cis Men and are not welcome in sessions with women?

Stop saying Terf. You are talking about rape victims. 

And yes I'm simply suggesting that accommodation for separate sessions for trans people should be set up. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

14 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

It's on, lads and lasses! Let's fucking get intae them!

 

Not gonna happen. Johnson and his cronies will block it. Then things will go to court, where the SNP will probably lose the case.

[Varysblackfyre321]

8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Stop saying Terf.

Would you prefer the term sex realist?

Anyway there’s a bunch of terf groups who this women could have went to for the same type of help.

She didn’t have to go to a rape charity that wasn’t as transphobic as she appears to be.

8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

You are talking about rape victims. 

It’s okay for a,session meant to be safe space for women to discuss their sexual trauma to be open to all women.

 

8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

And yes I'm simply suggesting

You’re not simply suggesting.

You’re arguing for rape charities to be legally required expel/bar trans women from a space meant for women to talk about sexual abuse.

Also again the lack of the use of the phrase “trans women” from you

[Pebble thats Stubby]

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Stop saying Terf. You are talking about rape victims. 

And yes I'm simply suggesting that accommodation for separate sessions for trans people should be set up. 

you can be both a rape victim and a Terf.

 

not recognising a transwomen as a women makes you a Terf.

 

I understand that someone who has been raped may be uncomfortable in the presence of a Transwomen, but that does not mean they should sue.   Both Women are victims.  Both women should be believed.  

if you attend a session that openly states Transwomen can be present then it should not be a shock if they do.  If you have a problem with that then ask if maybe you can be transferred to another group or something.  The charity might not have the recourses to a Transwomen only group or enough people.

Not wanting a Transwomen present because sometimes Men lie is by default not believing a rape victim.  Saying they presented as a Man because they wore male clothes?  what does that even mean?  not wearing a skirt or a dress?  not wearing enough pink?  what is male clothes that women can't wear and be a woman?

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

not recognising a transwomen as a women makes you a Terf.

Eh, I would say it’s more trying to paint your transphobia as needed for feminism or use feminist sounding rhetoric.

There are certainly transphobes who don’t do either.

6 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

I understand that someone who has been raped may be uncomfortable in the presence of a Transwomen,

How dare you not use Biological male? 

 

7 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

Saying they presented as a Man because they wore male clothes?  what does that even mean?  not wearing a skirt or a dress?  not wearing enough pink?  what is male clothes that women can't wear and be a woman?

Trans women really are hated no matter how they present.

If they don’t prepresent as especially feminine in their dress or they can’t afford/don’t want to go through  surgeries or hormones, it’s taken as proof they’re just lying to prey on women.

If they do present as especially feminine it’s taken as proof they fetish womanhood and want to prey on women.

[Zorral]

That would include nicely his frequently expressed contempt and dislike of older people too, since the nazis were all about getting rid of all useless mouths in nazi perspective, which included the not young. If not outright killing them, at the very least sequestering and segregating them, like all the other disliked groups, such as women, who were to be confined to cooking, cleaning, childcare and broodmare duties.

[Heartofice]

18 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

you can be both a rape victim and a Terf.

It's a term of derision and a slur. You are talking about a rape victim who doesn't feel comfortable relaying her experiences in front of a biological male because it might trigger her or make her distressed.

All she was asking for were single sex sessions, and the crisis centre refused her. She wasn't saying that the transwoman should be denied councilling, she was asking for separate sessions to be put on. It seems she wasn't alone in that request either.

There is a real lack of understanding and sympathy for actual rape victims in this discussion that I find chilling actually. You see yourselves as good people yet you are throwing abuse at victims of rape because they don't want to feel distressed.
 

[Pebble thats Stubby]

3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It's a term of derision and a slur. You are talking about a rape victim who doesn't feel comfortable relaying her experiences in front of a biological male because it might trigger her or make her distressed.

All she was asking for were single sex sessions, and the crisis centre refused her. She wasn't saying that the transwoman should be denied councilling, she was asking for separate sessions to be put on. It seems she wasn't alone in that request either.
There is a real lack of understanding and sympathy for actual rape victims in this discussion that I find chilling actually. You see yourselves as good people yet you are throwing abuse at victims of rape because they don't want to feel distressed.
 

calling a transgender woman and biological male is a term of derision and a slur, and in this case also a rape victim.

 

there is a real lack of understanding and sympathy of actual transgender rape victims in your posts that I find chilling actually.  You see yourself as a good person yet you are denying the gender of a rape victim and denying counselling services to an actual rape victims from a charity that openly states all women Cis and Trans can attend group sessions.

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

It's a term of derision and a slur

It can be a term derision but so can homophobe, and racist.

It’s not a slur like the N-word, or F-slur where what’s being attacked isn’t just one’s bigoted political ideology.

Its fine to call a terf a terf.

4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

You are talking about a rape victim who doesn't feel comfortable relaying her experiences in front of a trans woman

Fixed that for you.

6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

All she was asking for were single sex sessions, and the crisis centre refused her.

What about what the trans woman wanted and was asking for?

7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

She wasn't saying that the transwoman should be denied councilling, she was asking for separate sessions to be put on. It seems she wasn't alone in that request either.

And the trans woman was fine with the group sessions she attended.

The crisis center’s trans friendly policy is probably a big reason why she came to it for help.

The terf—I will continue to use the term when appropriate—had ample warning on what the people she’s suing policy was concerning trans people.

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

There is a real lack of understanding and sympathy for actual rape victims in this discussion that I find chilling actually.

Please spare the world your feigned concern.

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

calling a transgender woman and biological male is a term of derision and a slur, and in this case also a rape victim.

 

there is a real lack of understanding and sympathy of actual transgender rape victims in your posts that I find chilling actually.  You see yourself as a good person yet you are denying the gender of a rape victim and denying counselling services to an actual rape victims from a charity that openly states all women Cis and Trans can attend group sessions.

Nice sarcastic post, doesn’t make you right though.

Again, the trans woman wasn’t being denied counselling services, that wasn’t the request. 

[Raja]

It isn't a slur though, is it. It's akin to when you call people out for what they are, similar to racists, bigots etc, but people just don't want to hear what they are.

8 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

calling a transgender woman and biological male is a term of derision and a slur, and in this case also a rape victim.

there is a real lack of understanding and sympathy of actual transgender rape victims in your posts that I find chilling actually.  You see yourself as a good person yet you are denying the gender of a rape victim and denying counselling services to an actual rape victims from a charity that openly states all women Cis and Trans can attend group sessions.

100%.

[Spockydog]

53 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Not gonna happen. Johnson and his cronies will block it. Then things will go to court, where the SNP will probably lose the case.

Yeah, let's see. You cannot claim to be a voluntarily united kingdom while denying any one of those kingdom's desire for autonomy.

Pretty sure Sturgeon knows what she is dolng here. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Again, the trans woman wasn’t being denied counselling services, that wasn’t the request. 

The trans  wanted/wants to attend group sessions with other women discussing their sexual abuse

The request was to bar her from something that offered this rape victim comfort.

You don’t care about that. Because you’re first priority is your culture war nonesense that only seeks to stoke divisions.

[Heartofice]

Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said:

The request was to bar her from something that offered this rape victim comfort.

You are confused. That didn’t happen. Stop making things up.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Nice sarcastic post, doesn’t make you right though.

Again, the trans woman wasn’t being denied counselling services, that wasn’t the request. 

Thank you for using the term Trans woman.

 

And yes by asking that the transwomen be blocked from attended the group counselling session it is in fact requesting she be denied counselling services.  And Suing a charity that already has limited recourses because of it if damages are awarded means even less people get counselling services.

 

Do you know for a fact that there are enough resources to run 2 groups?  or enough trans friendly people to run 2 groups?   I imagine not being accepted as a woman but more as a special case would make the group theorpy really difficult and the space less safe.  However as I'm Cis and never been raped I don't know that for sure.

[Varysblackfyre321]

Just now, Heartofice said:

You are confused. That didn’t happen. Stop making things up.

“Stop talking about the trans woman rape victim that’s potentially going to get hurt  and just be cowed my confident proclamations of moral outrage at BIOLOGICAL MALES, penetrating female spaces.”

 

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

And yes by asking that the transwomen be blocked from attended the group counselling session it is in fact requesting she be denied counselling services.

They weren’t blocked from anything and you know it. The request was for other sessions to be put on in addition.

 

4 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

Do you know for a fact that there are enough resources to run 2 groups?

There should be, otherwise they aren’t fulfilling the needs of their members.

[Varysblackfyre321]

6 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

Do you know for a fact that there are enough resources to run 2 groups? 

Hell Theres doesn’t seem to be enough trans women  to have 2 groups.

Only one transwoman actually attended the group sessions.

If she’s cut out of the regular ones there’s no telling if/when another trans woman shows up.