UK Politics - Caesar: Most senators didn’t stab me, so all good!

[Spockydog]

It's a terrible fucking look. And he's got his shadow cabinet jockeying to see who can out-Tory each other on the matter. Lammy yesterday was a fucking disgrace. 

Yeah, sure, the anti-worker stuff will be attracting disillusioned Tories, but at what cost? He is alienating vast swathes of his party.

This is definitely not what he ran on.

[BigFatCoward]

Most of those leaders were fucking losers. I'm not interested in being in opposition while maintaining the moral high ground. 

[mormont]

I don't think this stuff does attract disillusioned Tories. It's not so much aimed at that as at avoiding giving the Tories a chance to change the subject, as I've noted before. I don't agree with it, but I'm not sure it makes any difference to the strikers' cause.

Anyway, speaking of changing the subject, today's BS from the government is more 'anti-woke' crusading. Bit of background: some of you may remember that as part of HE reforms twenty years ago, when it was noted that there was no qualification needed to teach in HE, an organisation was set up not to require such qualifications but to drive up professional standards in HE. This is called AdvanceHE.

AdvanceHE, among other work, have produced a Race Equality Charter, based on clear and sustained evidence that BAME lecturers are less likely to get into promoted posts. Many universities have signed up. In Wales, signing up to this charter has been made a condition of public funding.

Obviously, therefore, the Conservatives are now threatening to withdraw funding if universities in England sign up.

Again, this is a modest, evidence-based, voluntary set of aims and aspirations to address what everyone agrees is an actual problem. Increasingly, the Tories don't even bother to pretend that they care about equality at all.

[Zorral]

It's been obvious for several decades that the ruling classes of UK and USA YAY want a return to at least the early and mid-1700's (though even then there were so many pesky fellows -- many even aristos themselves -- running about doing experiments and inventing the scientific method).  The ruling classes were entirely in the saddle, yet never had to worry or even think about the others, for they were so very safe in their interlocking systems of protection and privilege.  It was a lot scarier for monarchs back in the 1370's etc., so going back to the Middle Ages is probably not in their cards either.

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

A woman is suing a rape charity for being trans inclusive.
It is a shame when people try to use their trauma to legitimize their bigoted attacks against a marginalized group.

Fuck she doesn’t even mention the trans woman doing anything directly to her or any of other women.

Just their mere presence is offensive enough to demand condemnation.

Also she mentions “sex-based rights” which is a term mostly pushed by terfs and their far right allies who love to feign incredulity to mask their bigotry.

 

[BigFatCoward]

How can you even sue a charity? If you don't like the help they provide don't use it surely? 

[Pebble thats Stubby]

 

Lady  - this is the very definition of transphobic.

Quote

 

However, Sarah says she felt the presence of the trans woman in the group changed the atmosphere and discussion. She says she is not transphobic, but feels she now can't use the service.

 

"I think it's fantastic that trans survivors feel that there is a safe space for them that they can go and seek help. But for me personally, a mixed sex space doesn't work."

She added: "I think having just one additional group for women who are born female would be the answer."

 

 

[Heartofice]

Is a rape victim not wanting a biological male to be in the room as she talks about being abused as a child not understandable?

Quote

Sarah says a new person attended a session, whom she understood to be a trans woman. She said the person presented as typically male, wearing male clothing. "I was a bit taken aback. I decided I wasn't going to speak that week because I wasn't comfortable."

"I don't trust men because I have been raped by a man. I've been sexually abused by men. And I just don't necessarily trust that men are always who they say they are," she said.

I find it a little grim that anyone would use this as a reason to attack women and call them terfs.

[Varysblackfyre321]

16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Is a rape victim not wanting a biological male

Dude, why the redundancy? You can just say male. Or if you’re not transphobic just go with trans women.

In no other contexts besides fearmongering about transwoman is the phrase “biological male,” 

16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

be in the room as she talks about being abused as a child not understandable?

 

16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

find it a little grim that anyone would use this as a reason to attack women and call them terfs.

It’s okay for trans women to share their sexual abuse at or attend group sessions for women.

It’s grim that terfs have managed to help normalize the far right’s culture wars.

 

[Heartofice]

I know you are just stirring the pot here, but we are talking about the feelings of a rape victim, this isn't your little culture war. This is pretty disgusting of you and I think I'll just leave it there. 

[Which Tyler]

Two rape survivors.

[mormont]

22 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Is a rape victim not wanting a biological male to be in the room as she talks about being abused as a child not understandable?

Leaving aside the 'biological male' crack, while it may or may not be understandable, the actual question is: is it a reason to sue?

The trans woman in the room was, as even the plaintiff acknowledges, every bit as entitled to be there as she was. It's unclear whether she asked the charity to make alternative provision but if she had, the likelihood is that this would not have been practical. Most of these charities operate on the edge of what they can do, resources-wise: providing segregated sessions would probably not have been viable.

I would bet my mortgage that this woman has been encouraged to take the case by 'gender-critical' activists. They're the ones who should be ashamed, because they're manipulating her for political ends.

[Heartofice]

14 minutes ago, mormont said:

The trans woman in the room was, as even the plaintiff acknowledges, every bit as entitled to be there as she was. It's unclear whether she asked the charity to make alternative provision but if she had, the likelihood is that this would not have been practical. Most of these charities operate on the edge of what they can do, resources-wise: providing segregated sessions would probably not have been viable.

They were entitled to be treated for their abuse, they didn't have to be put in a room with female rape victims, especially if they presented primarily as male. That was thoughtless and clearly affected the female abuse victim. They could have been given their own sessions or individual help. 

Also from that same article:
 

Quote

In April, the Equality and Human Rights Commission issued guidance for organisations in England, Scotland and Wales.

It says that in certain places, such as hospital wards or changing rooms, providers can offer single sex services that "prevent, limit or modify" trans people from attending, if it is "a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim" and balances the needs of service users.

 

14 minutes ago, mormont said:

Leaving aside the 'biological male' crack, while it may or may not be understandable, the actual question is: is it a reason to sue?

This isn't a crack, it's an important point when considering the welfare of rape victims. 



 

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

I know you are just stirring the pot here, but we are talking about the feelings of a rape victim

Her trauma doesn’t justify her legal demand for a charity to be bigoted against trans women who are also rape victims.

I find it disgusting that you and her would try to weaponize this in order to bludgeon a charity just for treating trans women as women.

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

this isn't your little culture war.

No it’s yours.

It’s always started by people like you, 

6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

This is pretty disgusting of you and I think I'll just leave it there. 

I just want trans women to be allowed to discuss the sexual abuse they’ve suffered at meetings for women who’ve suffered sexual abuse.

I think that’s a good thing.

 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

'gender-critical' activists

I think many have steadily tried to move away from the phrasegender critical”

Partly Because too many far right degenerates kept calling their positions or themselves that when bitching about trans people.

Many have begun to just call themselves sex-realists—which sounds awfully like race-realists.

Given this types tend to align themselves with the alt  right this isn’t surprising.

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

They were entitled to be treated for their abuse, they didn't have to be put in a room with female rape victims, especially if they presented primarily as male

Oh notice the lack of she/her pronouns.

I’m gonna make make a leap and say this was a deliberate choice.

Also the charity is based for treating women equally.

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

They could have been given their own sessions or individual help. 

And the woman suing could have just went to a support group set up by “sex-realists”

Instead of trying to bludgeon a charity for being trans inclusive.

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

This isn't a crack

It’s always a crack dude, no where else besides fearmongering about  trans women is the phrase “biological male” used.

It’d be more intellectually honest for a person to just call trans women “men”

[Which Tyler]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/28/silenced-last-anti-brexit-protester-steve-bray-has-loudspeaker/

I just want to get this straight.

So Steve hasn't been "cancelled" because only the left do that - instead, the law has been changed, to strip 59.5 million people of their right to protest, because one person was "a bit annoying".

 

And we're the snowflakes... and it wasn't cancelling...

 

Have I got that right?

[Varysblackfyre321]

4 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Have I got that right?

culture warriors only care about winning their culture war.

They have no care for hypocrisy or consistency concerning the arguments they use get a stranglehold on power.

[Varysblackfyre321]

52 minutes ago, mormont said:

They're the ones who should be ashamed, because they're manipulating her for political ends.

I’m wary of this type of rhetoric being utilized so early, because it may be removing her agency where her own personal bigotries may be the primary source driving her. 
 

[Pebble thats Stubby]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Is a rape victim not wanting a biological male to be in the room as she talks about being abused as a child not understandable?

I find it a little grim that anyone would use this as a reason to attack women and call them terfs.

maybe in that case she should have attended group rape counselling session for Terfs and not one that clearly states that the group meetings can be attended by all women including transwomen.  this is in the handbook they are given before attending and they are specifically told this in person.

Or maybe if a Terf session is not available then ask for one on one counselling?

Or are you suggesting raped Transwomen should attend sessions with Cis Men and are not welcome in sessions with women?

[john]

Quote

Sarah's lawyer, Kate Lea, says that while the guidance is welcome, it does not go far enough and clarification is needed from the courts. "We see this very much as a test case. We need further guidance in this area. We recognise that there are really difficult decisions to be made by service providers." 

Sounds like it’s the lawyers pushing the case. Could be a nice earner if a court ruled the legislation actually requires organisations to provide additional, non trans inclusive services. Obviously a lot of them won’t have the resources to do that.