Star Wars: Nothing But Star Wars

[sifth]

17 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Space ship go, "Vrooom!"

Reva got to Tatooine, quicker than Dany got to the lands beyond The Wall, lol

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

17 minutes ago, sifth said:

Reva got to Tatooine, quicker than Dany got to the lands beyond The Wall, lol

Maybe the dragon had a secret afterburner allows them to break the sound barrier. "TOLIOT-ZĀLAGON!!!", or something like that. And a strong blue flame shoots out their ass on their way to the danger zone. 

Anyway, spaceship go vroom. 

[Darryk]

10 hours ago, Ran said:

Canonically, both craft are produced by the same corporation (Incom) and are explicitly said to have similar controls and flight characteristics. So, yeah, they dotted their's i and crosed their t's on this particular complaint. 

The days when Star Wars writers used to put thought into stuff like this. Oh how beautiful it was 

 

9 hours ago, Rubicante said:

Yep.  Had Empire come out in 2022, we would be pointing all of these things out and talking about how mediocre the writing is.

Yeah this is one of those things I've always heard prequel defenders and now Disney defenders say. I don't buy it.

But even if it was true, the fact is the Disney stuff mostly doesn't have the heart and personality of the originals, so their flaws stick out more.

[Lord Varys]

Regarding Reva:

I heard they originally wanted Vader to kill her - the whole Tatooine ending was apparently a late addition/change to lay the groundwork for a sequel. If that's true then her effectively teleporting to Tatooine kind of makes more sense, but it could still have worked much better if the thing had been edited differently.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

21 minutes ago, Darryk said:

The days when Star Wars writers used to put thought into stuff like this. Oh how beautiful it was 

Why should this even be a concern? It's perfectly reasonble to assume that as spacecraft technology matures, there's going to be a degree of standardization and convention that naturally creeps in. I drive a Ford. I'm also quite proficient at driving Hondas, Toyotas, Audis, Mercedes's. Chryslers...

Quote

Yeah this is one of those things I've always heard prequel defenders and now Disney defenders say. I don't buy it.

But even if it was true, the fact is the Disney stuff mostly doesn't have the heart and personality of the originals, so their flaws stick out more.

I don't buy it either. If critical opinion was that wishy-washy, Empire wouldn't have endured as well as it has. If anything, appreciation of it has only grown over the years. 

[Kalbear]

2 hours ago, Darryk said:

The days when Star Wars writers used to put thought into stuff like this. Oh how beautiful it was 

The writers didn't do shit. This was all done outside of the movies via the canon folks. 

 

[Rubicante]

It’s funny how adamantly people defend the OT.  I used to post on a website from “Chef Elf” where he created a list of reasons to hate the prequels.  Do yourself a favour and read them.  It’s hilarious.

https://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep1_1-10.php
 

I also argued in that forum how dumb it was that Luke could just get in an x-wing for the first time and not get killed when facing trained Imperial pilots, along with a station filled with turbo lasers. It was crazy how badly I was shat on.  
 

Yes, Obi-Wan does say that Luke has become quite a pilot.  And apparently he does fly that toy ship he plays with.  The problem is 

1. You never see the ship.  Where exactly is it kept?  Do the Lars own this ship?  Why do they need the Falcon if they own this ship?  Why not sell it to get money to go on the Falcon?

2. You never see Luke fly it, so we have no context in terms of how similar it is to flying an x-wing. Furthermore, can this ship even fly in space?  I can imagine there is a big difference between flying a ship in atmosphere compared to in space.  Luke’s inexperience is shown in the scene where Han is plotting a course to light speed where Luke is being an annoying bitch, and Han makes the comment “this isn’t like dusting crops, boy”.

3. As multiple people have already pointed out, even if he were able to pilot a ship with similar controls to an x-wing, and use the weapons to target womp rats, he is never being fired on.  He has no experience at all with performing any evasive maneuvers when being targeted by another pilot.

Taken in the context of when the movie came out, we ignore things like this because we were so blown away with the movie that nitpicking plot points wasn’t really a thing.  In 2022, we criticize and tear everything apart. However, if you do look past the nostalgia, the OT also has its problems.  I usually choose not to look past the nostalgia, albeit after watching these movies for probably about the 100th time each, I start to notice these little things.

[Heartofice]

I don’t think anyone was ignoring anything. I understood that Luke was good at flying ships, due to the limited tidbits of info in the movie. I don’t need to see the craft he flew or see him doing a fucking training montage to understand it. 
 

The problem with modern movie making, and maybe modern audiences is that they want everything laid out on a plate for them. Like they can’t believe that anyone could be good at anything without literally seeing the training and learning of skills on screen.

Outside of that, the story establishes that Luke is special, has special force abilities as well.. it doesn’t require any real leaps of logic to think he might be good at flying an X-Wing.

[Slurktan]

24 minutes ago, Rubicante said:

It’s funny how adamantly people defend the OT.  I used to post on a website from “Chef Elf” where he created a list of reasons to hate the prequels.  Do yourself a favour and read them.  It’s hilarious.

https://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep1_1-10.php
 

I also argued in that forum how dumb it was that Luke could just get in an x-wing for the first time and not get killed when facing trained Imperial pilots, along with a station filled with turbo lasers. It was crazy how badly I was shat on.  
 

Yes, Obi-Wan does say that Luke has become quite a pilot.  And apparently he does fly that toy ship he plays with.  The problem is 

1. You never see the ship.  Where exactly is it kept?  Do the Lars own this ship?  Why do they need the Falcon if they own this ship?  Why not sell it to get money to go on the Falcon?

2. You never see Luke fly it, so we have no context in terms of how similar it is to flying an x-wing. Furthermore, can this ship even fly in space?  I can imagine there is a big difference between flying a ship in atmosphere compared to in space.  Luke’s inexperience is shown in the scene where Han is plotting a course to light speed where Luke is being an annoying bitch, and Han makes the comment “this isn’t like dusting crops, boy”.

3. As multiple people have already pointed out, even if he were able to pilot a ship with similar controls to an x-wing, and use the weapons to target womp rats, he is never being fired on.  He has no experience at all with performing any evasive maneuvers when being targeted by another pilot.

Taken in the context of when the movie came out, we ignore things like this because we were so blown away with the movie that nitpicking plot points wasn’t really a thing.  In 2022, we criticize and tear everything apart. However, if you do look past the nostalgia, the OT also has its problems.  I usually choose not to look past the nostalgia, albeit after watching these movies for probably about the 100th time each, I start to notice these little things.

There's the scene with Biggs and red leader where Biggs tells red leader about Luke's piloting skills.  Have you not watched the movie since 1997?

[DMC]

Glad to see we've allowed Biggs Darklighter, one of the most underrated porn names in history, to enter the conversation.

But anyway, yeah, there's plenty of establishment of Luke being a good pilot in ANH.  One I haven't seen mentioned yet is when they're negotiating with Han he insists they could buy a ship and he could pilot it himself (perhaps a bit of youthful bravado, but still).

I'd also like to note we're kinda burying the lede here that Luke was proud of hunting and killing two-meter large animals for sport (even if they were pests to the farmers).  That's pretty close to an early indicator of being a sociopath.  And considering his family history...

[Kalbear]

The line from Mark Hamill about Harrison Ford told him 'hey kid, it ain't that kind of movie' rings true:

Star Wars has never been about that. It's always been about the feelings and the excitement and the imagination. 

Obi-Wan sometimes did that super, super well. And then other times the heroes were almost defeated by a gate they could walk around, villains were thwarted by a tree branch, Obi-Wan was saved by an incredibly slow droid taking him away from a small fire, etc. 

[Myrddin]

Found this on Reddit. It's a breakdown of the sword fighting from Obi-Wan:

 

[mormont]

I watch Matt a fair bit and he makes some good points there. The fights here are very well choreographed, in that they tell complete stories and make a lot of sense.

Of course he's also right about the lack of hand guards, which is the number one thing you realise makes no sense about lightsabers, but hey, I can cope with that.

[Luzifer's right hand]

I loved the fight between Vader and Obi-Wan.

I guess I could watch Ewan McGregor be Obi-Wan forever. I really liked the hello there scene which is probably evidence that my brain has suffered permanent meme damage over the years. I actually liked the prequels far less before I got into prequel memes...

Apart from that I agree that it could have been much better. Marvel stuff tends to be so much better. I don't have Disney+ for Star Wars though it is just a bonus.

[felice]

1 hour ago, Rubicante said:

1. You never see the ship.  Where exactly is it kept?  Do the Lars own this ship?

We see it here, right in the middle of the screen: https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/star-wars-a-new-hope-luke-skywalker-leia-hologram.jpg and presumably, yes. They're pretty well-off by Tatooine standards.

1 hour ago, Rubicante said:

 Why do they need the Falcon if they own this ship?  Why not sell it to get money to go on the Falcon?

It's a single-seater, probably without a hyperdrive? And they don't need to sell it, they get enough from the landspeeder.

1 hour ago, Rubicante said:

2. You never see Luke fly it, so we have no context in terms of how similar it is to flying an x-wing.

That he can fly an x-wing, and nobody considers this strange, indicates that they're very similar. There's no reason to assume they're significantly different.

1 hour ago, Rubicante said:

Luke’s inexperience is shown in the scene where Han is plotting a course to light speed where Luke is being an annoying bitch, and Han makes the comment “this isn’t like dusting crops, boy”.

That only shows inexperience with plotting hyperdrive coordinates, which wasn't relevant for the Death Star battle.

1 hour ago, Rubicante said:

He has no experience at all with performing any evasive maneuvers when being targeted by another pilot.

We don't know that. Playing at dogfighting with other local pilots seems very likely to me, though they obviously wouldn't be shooting to kill. But every fighter pilot has to have a first time under real enemy fire.

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I guess I could watch Ewan McGregor be Obi-Wan forever.

Me too.  I am totally a McGregor as Obi-Wan mark.  That's probably why I kept watching after the comically stupid fourth episode.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Rubicante said:

I also argued in that forum how dumb it was that Luke could just get in an x-wing for the first time and not get killed when facing trained Imperial pilots, along with a station filled with turbo lasers. It was crazy how badly I was shat on.  

His first time facing trained imperial pilots wasn't in the X-Wing. it was on the Falcon.

[Rubicante]

To be clear, I don’t require a training montage.  There could have been a throw away line about how Luke has been training at the academy during the farming off season.  But they don’t do that.  They make it seem like his farming skills, and womp rat hunting, are sufficient in preparing him for this battle.  And he’s so damn arrogant in the movie about how good of a pilot he is.

EDIT:  Anyways, I don’t want to argue the point anymore.  Overall it has no impact on me watching the movie, as I still love it.  I was just pointing out that not everything in the OT is as perfect as we think it is.  And it doesn’t need to be.  That’s not the point of a Star Wars movie.  It’s more about being along for a wild adventure in a galaxy far, far away.

[Caligula_K3]

Complaints about Luke being unnaturally good at everything always seemed to be missing the point to me, just like complaints about Rey being good at everything in the sequels (well, those complaints tend to miss the point even more, since they're usually motivated by sexism(. Star Wars is wish fulfilment fantasy. That's why I loved it as a six year old. As long as it hangs together reasonably well, who cares about stuff like this?

 

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Except he isn't unnaturally good at everything to extent Rey is. Rey demonstrates exceptional pilot skills. Fine. But she goes from never having held a lightsaber and thinking Luke Skywalker is a legend to doing Jedi mind tricks and defeating Kylo Ren in a lightaber duel in the same film. that's a bit of stretch given the established internal logic of the franchise.

Supposedly, the "diad in the force" thing allowed Rey to download Kylos abilities or something. That would have been great if it was ever mentioned in any of the films.