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Because Jeor Mormont was a terrible Lord Commander in the HBO adaptation.


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Seriously, I have a lot to say about this character and little of it is good, it is true that he gave "Claw" to Jon (And in fact that, together with the fact of naming him his personal assistant, were the only good things he did).

At first Jeor Mormont was presented as an experienced Lord Commander, wise and capable but little by little we realize that the man was not someone intelligent or sensible making costly mistakes that almost cost the destruction of the Kingdom and that in the end effectively destroyed the wall .

The first was to give power and authority over the new recruits to someone like Ser Alliser Thorne just because he wanted more hardened soldiers (which is understandable given the decline of the Watch) but Jeor was aware that Thorne was deliberately abusing his authority with the soldiers. recruits like Jon and did nothing to stop him, after the death of the Lord Commander Ser Alliser was left in charge of the Wall and indeed not only did he not help but also because of his arrogant and despotic government he almost caused the annihilation of the Guard when the army of Mance attacked the Wall.

The second (although the first to be seen on the show) was appointing Waymar Royce the leader of an expedition when the boy was greener than a lemon as well as contemptuous and arrogant against the more experienced members just because they were commoners without mentioning that In reality, he did not care about his companions, he only wanted personal glory, thus obtaining Waymar Gared's death and his own.

The third was agreeing with someone like Craster despite knowing what a disgusting monster he was, in the series it was not clear if Jeor knew who Craster was sacrificing his children to, but his refusal to stop him because he did not consider it his concern caused that the "White Walkers" increased their numbers, if Lord Commander Mormont had bothered to investigate the matter further...Things would have been different.

The fourth was to forget the real objective of the Guard, at the end of the First Season after having seen how the corpse of one of his soldiers tried to kill him, he decided to lead an expedition beyond the Wall to find out what was happening but when Craster told him that Mance had assembled an army Mormont changed his plans to annihilate him before the King Beyond the Wall attacked the Wall.

Momont had been receiving reports that the Wildlings were fleeing south and that they had seen the Walkers, rather than seek to find out what they knew or even form an alliance he sought to eliminate the only man beyond to wall who might have actually bothered to listen to him.

The fifth was effectively the expedition itself, there was no point risking more men now knowing the enemy they had, he had to regroup them at the Wall and effectively wait for an attack while they looked for a way to accumulate resources.

The sixth and last was not paying attention to his men, after the fiasco that resulted from the expedition... They were all wounded, hungry, tired and horrified by what they saw in the Fist of the First Men... Mormont did not try to understand his feelings or he didn't care so he understood what they thought of him and his expedition and all that was inside of them like a barrel with explosives waiting to come out not to mention that most of them were criminals or people who annoyed a Lord but They were forced to go to the Wall, they had no true honor or genuine loyalty to the Guard, they only followed Mormont because they believed that with him they could survive but they began to realize that this would not be the case ... But the Old Bear only followed pressing.

Making the worst possible decision... Returning to Craster where he only received them with insults, ridicule and denigrations, even leaving them to suffer from hunger and cold.

The mutiny and the death of the Lord Commander Mormont were not unexpected if you think about it, in fact it was foreshadowed in those since in these Tyrion was the one who reprimanded Mormont for giving Thorne power over the recruits implying that the Old Bear did not always knew judge people.

But what do you think?

Edited by NúmenorASOIAF
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  • 1 month later...

So, to expound:

In the show at the least, Craster sacrifices his sons to the White Walkers, where the Night King turns them into more White Walkers. Which shoots the Night's Watch in the foot because they're sworn to defend the realm against the White Walkers. Plus Craster rapes his daughters (and their daughters). The point is that Jeor knows about sacrificing the infants to the Walkers, making him a kinslayer and a rapist (and though Jeor doesn't know it a traitor).

Did they really need Craster to run that outpost?

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On 7/29/2022 at 7:45 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Did they really need Craster to run that outpost?

There's practicalities afoot there like the fact that Craster is running a farm/ranch that provides food and shelter that a Night's Watch outpost won't be able to duplicate due to Wildling attacks. Also, unbeknownst to Mormont, it is the fact that Craster is a Satanist/White Walker worshiper that the place is protected against the forces of the Others. There's a logic to tolerating him but as we know, it is such a gross and vile thing that his existence undermines morale in a way that cannot be understated as well as a blight on Night Watch honor.

Aside from this, I mostly give Mormont a pass that he's making due as best he can with few resources and men plus a completely outside context problem.

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On 6/13/2022 at 5:40 AM, NúmenorASOIAF said:

Seriously, I have a lot to say about this character and little of it is good, it is true that he gave "Claw" to Jon (And in fact that, together with the fact of naming him his personal assistant, were the only good things he did).

At first Jeor Mormont was presented as an experienced Lord Commander, wise and capable but little by little we realize that the man was not someone intelligent or sensible making costly mistakes that almost cost the destruction of the Kingdom and that in the end effectively destroyed the wall .

The first was to give power and authority over the new recruits to someone like Ser Alliser Thorne just because he wanted more hardened soldiers (which is understandable given the decline of the Watch) but Jeor was aware that Thorne was deliberately abusing his authority with the soldiers. recruits like Jon and did nothing to stop him, after the death of the Lord Commander Ser Alliser was left in charge of the Wall and indeed not only did he not help but also because of his arrogant and despotic government he almost caused the annihilation of the Guard when the army of Mance attacked the Wall.

The second (although the first to be seen on the show) was appointing Waymar Royce the leader of an expedition when the boy was greener than a lemon as well as contemptuous and arrogant against the more experienced members just because they were commoners without mentioning that In reality, he did not care about his companions, he only wanted personal glory, thus obtaining Waymar Gared's death and his own.

The third was agreeing with someone like Craster despite knowing what a disgusting monster he was, in the series it was not clear if Jeor knew who Craster was sacrificing his children to, but his refusal to stop him because he did not consider it his concern caused that the "White Walkers" increased their numbers, if Lord Commander Mormont had bothered to investigate the matter further...Things would have been different.

The fourth was to forget the real objective of the Guard, at the end of the First Season after having seen how the corpse of one of his soldiers tried to kill him, he decided to lead an expedition beyond the Wall to find out what was happening but when Craster told him that Mance had assembled an army Mormont changed his plans to annihilate him before the King Beyond the Wall attacked the Wall.

Momont had been receiving reports that the Wildlings were fleeing south and that they had seen the Walkers, rather than seek to find out what they knew or even form an alliance he sought to eliminate the only man beyond to wall who might have actually bothered to listen to him.

The fifth was effectively the expedition itself, there was no point risking more men now knowing the enemy they had, he had to regroup them at the Wall and effectively wait for an attack while they looked for a way to accumulate resources.

The sixth and last was not paying attention to his men, after the fiasco that resulted from the expedition... They were all wounded, hungry, tired and horrified by what they saw in the Fist of the First Men... Mormont did not try to understand his feelings or he didn't care so he understood what they thought of him and his expedition and all that was inside of them like a barrel with explosives waiting to come out not to mention that most of them were criminals or people who annoyed a Lord but They were forced to go to the Wall, they had no true honor or genuine loyalty to the Guard, they only followed Mormont because they believed that with him they could survive but they began to realize that this would not be the case ... But the Old Bear only followed pressing.

Making the worst possible decision... Returning to Craster where he only received them with insults, ridicule and denigrations, even leaving them to suffer from hunger and cold.

The mutiny and the death of the Lord Commander Mormont were not unexpected if you think about it, in fact it was foreshadowed in those since in these Tyrion was the one who reprimanded Mormont for giving Thorne power over the recruits implying that the Old Bear did not always knew judge people.

But what do you think?

Throne wasn't back from KL yet when Mormont left, Mormont did not posthumously annoint him commander of Castle Black, he ended up that way due to being more experienced, trained and overall capable then the rest. The Night's Watch is ostensibly a prison colony at this point, it really can't function on a brownie point system for being nice to each other alone. I don't how this can be held against Mormont in any way.

Waymar Royce was the leader of a small patrol, calling it an expedition is massively overstating his role in Night's Watch. And as we see with Jon, being educated by a master-at-arms and maester in a castle is a massive advantage in the Night's Watch that they do not have the luxury of overlooking. Jon is pretty new to the Watch just like Waymar when he becomes Lord-Commander in the grand scheme of things. 

Attacking the Wall is exactly what Mance was able to assemble his massive army, what Jon and Mance were able to work out when the strength behind that army was mostly broken by Stannis has no bearing on what it represented before then. Letting their entire people pass through the wall would strip the land clean of resources, and completely loose them the support of the lords of Westeros. Not working against Mance would be the end of the Night's Watch in it's own right. Or at least Mormont had completely plausible reasons for seeing it as such. 

And if they faced hunger and cold at Craster, I don't particularly understand what you think they would have found out in the wilds other then ever greater hunger and more cold. Along with more danger from attack by wights and Walkers.

Edited by Denam_Pavel
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