International Events IX: I feel like a mushroom

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Nah, he wanted quite a bit more than that. That clause made sure Japan could actively not participate in the military shenanigans of allied nations. So it kept Japans effectively out of Iraq as a recent example. That's the kind of thins he wanted changed.

 

Well, that and upgrading the military to be capable of doing that. I suspect amament is on the cards for Japan during the coming decade anyway.

[Ran]

3 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Nah, he wanted quite a bit more than that. That clause made sure Japan could actively not participate in the military shenanigans of allied nations. So it kept Japans effectively out of Iraq as a recent example. That's the kind of thins he wanted changed.

I mean, his government already changed it in practice in 2014 when they interpreted Article 9 to allow collective self-defense, and the next year the National Diet passed a series of laws codifying the new interpretation. The SDF can now provide material support to allied nations if they are attacked, as part of the principle of collective self-defense.

3 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Well, that and upgrading the military to be capable of doing that. I suspect amament is on the cards for Japan during the coming decade anyway.

That too has already happened, they've developed cruise missiles and other offensive weaponry but only for the purpose of counter-offensive. 

Again, Abe's desired revision was simply getting a clause in Article 9 acknowledging and giving Constitutional force to the existence of the SDF. Maybe he would have wanted more in a different political environment, but in the environment he was in that revision would have satisfied him.

There are people who want to abolish Article 9 entirely, perhaps even in his own party,but that wasn't Abe.

[TormundsWoman]

5 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I'm not kidding.

In 2021, there were 10 shooting incidents, eight involving gangsters, according to police data. One person was killed and four wounded.

According to a quick googling...

That is without suicides or accidents only attacks.

Man, we need whatever they are smoking! I mean I have not ever heard that low a number in a single week where I am… comes out at 45 shooting incidents per week for the first five months in my calculations.

[Corvinus85]

6 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said:

Man, we need whatever they are smoking! I mean I have not ever heard that low a number in a single week where I am… comes out at 45 shooting incidents per week for the first five months in my calculations.

And the weapon he used was homemade, not something bought from a gun store. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/homemade-guns-are-seized-raid-abe-shooting-suspects-home-police-say-rcna37260

[Padraig]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

I mean, his government already changed it in practice in 2014 when they interpreted Article 9 to allow collective self-defense, and the next year the National Diet passed a series of laws codifying the new interpretation. The SDF can now provide material support to allied nations if they are attacked, as part of the principle of collective self-defense.

I wouldn't say I know a lot about Japan but I have sensed an unease about how it has dealt with its Imperial past, especially its actions leading up to (and including) WW2, with very unfavorable comparisons made with Germany.  Abe seemed to bring out the worst in this.

This is probably an overly negative view of the guy (written in 2020, when he resigned) but it reflects the general unease certain people have felt towards him.  That's why his wish to rewrite the Constitution worried them.

https://www.policyforum.net/how-will-history-judge-shinzo-abe/

The BBC tried a more balanced view but it still voices a concern.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53950704

[Ran]

I don't deny Abe had ideas I consider distasteful, but the issue of Article 9 is a long-standing one in the body politic and had real consequences in terms of Japan's international relations, both positive and negative.

Wanting the SDF given constitutional legitimacy would not have changed the other provisions of the Article, in any case.

[The Anti-Targ]

Possibly a dangerous time for Japan to be seen to be developing military strength as that of a major power. China won't have forgotten WW2, and it will feel pretty nervous about a large indigenous military presence right on its doorstep.

The principle of collective self-defense can be used to justify anything. The best kind of self-defense is the preemptive kind after all.

[Ran]

Also a dangerous time for Japan to not be developing its military strength.

The Constitution's article opposing war as a solution to conflicts would stand in any revision, and so Japan is committed to never being the first mover in a conflict.

[Luzifer's right hand]

13 hours ago, TormundsWoman said:

Man, we need whatever they are smoking! I mean I have not ever heard that low a number in a single week where I am… comes out at 45 shooting incidents per week for the first five months in my calculations.

~ 125 million people...

[Padraig]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

Also a dangerous time for Japan to not be developing its military strength.

There are (presumably) parallels to be drawn between Germany's recent changes in reaction to Russia and Japan's steps towards more militarisation (partly because of China).  It is also why Russia's actions are so disturbing.  It upends certain norms and it does give further momentum (and justification) to Japan's approach.  But if nationalism is seen as the real driver of any changes, it will continue to disturb some people.

Even if Abe didn't have the votes in his time as PM to go as far as he would have liked.

[Clueless Northman]

15 hours ago, Padraig said:

I wouldn't say I know a lot about Japan but I have sensed an unease about how it has dealt with its Imperial past, especially its actions leading up to (and including) WW2, with very unfavorable comparisons made with Germany.  Abe seemed to bring out the worst in this.

Well, his grandfather actually signed the declaration of war against the US. Then was picked to be a post-war PM since he was conservative and fighting evil commies was the new geostrategic imperative for the USA.

Somehow, I doubt you'd ever see the grandson of Rudolf Hess or Albert Speer becoming PM, and of course even less Speer himself becoming German PM. There's been an insane double-standard going on when you compare post-war Germany to post-war Japan. Mostly because Japanese Imperial Army is supposed to mostly have mass-murdered non-whites, so Westerners don't make much of a fuss about it; to an extent as well because some of their worst atrocities, including atrocities against "whites", were never widely disclosed, like the mass cannibalism of POW and locals across the Pacific (mostly because military and political leadership didn't want to upset their families by relating that their loved ones didn't merely die when prisoners of the Japanese, but were actually eaten).

Considering how many Chinese died during the war and how close the country came to be conquered (it was an even closer thing than it ever was for USSR), remilitarization of Japan won't go well with Beijing - even if there are legitimate concerns about Japan's security and China's military might.

 

16 hours ago, TormundsWoman said:

Man, we need whatever they are smoking! I mean I have not ever heard that low a number in a single week where I am… comes out at 45 shooting incidents per week for the first five months in my calculations.

And then you have to take into account that it's possible that at some point during the Sengoku era, the civil wars leading to unification in late 16th century, there might have been more firearms in Japan than in whole Europe, with clans fielding armies of tens of thousands (as seen in some parts of Ran, the Kurosawa movie, not our benevolent overlord). The bulk of rifles being confiscated as soon asTokugawa began to consolidate his power over the entire country, the country going back soon, and for several centuries, to sabre-wielding samurais and soldiers.

 

Now, in some weird twist, it seems that the murderer was actually pissed off at Moon's Unification Church because it ruined his mother; and the killer might have also been member from a rival or spin-off cult. He actually hoped to kill a prominent Moonie leader who eventually didn't attend the meeting, and picked Abe instead - probably because he thought he'd been way too cozy to the cult.

[Fez]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-09/shinzo-abe-s-death-highlights-fringe-japan-political-party-that-criticized-him

Hard to follow Bloomberg article suggesting that Abe's assassin may have been part of the Japanese branch/version of QAnon. Or possibly the assassin's mother had fallen into QAnon and he blamed Abe for it. Like I said, hard to follow.

But QAnon is absolutely a thing in Japan; although there it's all tied up with the Unification Church, which has it's own cult-like tendencies and I'm not sure if QAnon supports or opposes the Church (I think opposes it).

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

4 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

Somehow, I doubt you'd ever see the grandson of Rudolf Hess or Albert Speer becoming PM, and of course even less Speer himself becoming German PM. There's been an insane double-standard going on when you compare post-war Germany to post-war Japan. Mostly because Japanese Imperial Army is supposed to mostly have mass-murdered non-whites, so Westerners don't make much of a fuss about it; to an extent as well because some of their worst atrocities, including atrocities against "whites", were never widely disclosed, like the mass cannibalism of POW and locals across the Pacific (mostly because military and political leadership didn't want to upset their families by relating that their loved ones didn't merely die when prisoners of the Japanese, but were actually eaten).

Funny you mentioned Speer there.

Altho, Speer's son, the late Albert Speer Jr. became famous in his own right. He followed his father's career by becoming an architect and city planner. His sister, Hilde Schramm (nee Speer), became educator went into politics (not on the right, she was (or still is?) a member of the Green party).  After her time in parliament she started and worked for anti-racism projects.

They were or in Schramm's case are distinctively not right wingers.

[Padraig]

4 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

Considering how many Chinese died during the war and how close the country came to be conquered (it was an even closer thing than it ever was for USSR), remilitarization of Japan won't go well with Beijing - even if there are legitimate concerns about Japan's security and China's military might.

There is no good answer to that really.  China has spent a lot of money on its military.  Sure, they will be annoyed at Japan doing the same but they can't really be surprised.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Looks like high drama in Sri Lanka, with the President agreeing to let go of power. Seems to have been precipitated by a 'storming of the castle', so to speak. Interesting parallels with the Jan 6 situation here in the US, but sometimes that's just the way to go.

[Heartofice]

16 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Looks like high drama in Sri Lanka, with the President agreeing to let go of power. Seems to have been precipitated by a 'storming of the castle', so to speak. Interesting parallels with the Jan 6 situation here in the US, but sometimes that's just the way to go.

Isn’t this about ‘organic farming’ 

[Fez]

31 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Isn’t this about ‘organic farming’ 

Partially, but it's reductive to say it's all about that. The national ban on chemical fertilizer and pesticides, when Sri Lankan farmers were in no way prepared to transition to organic farming did a ton of damage to the economy. But the Sri Lankan economy also took a ton of damage due to the collapse in tourism after the 2019 Easter bombings (and then COVID on top of that). Plus a variety of other bad decisions, large and small, by the government that hurt. And then the government was unable to advance any solutions to any of this, and the President started doing stuff like authorizing the military to arrest protesters in a bid to stay in power.

[TheLastWolf]

Well a government founded on ethnic cleansing and genocide wasn't going to last

[The Anti-Targ]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:46 PM, Ran said:

Also a dangerous time for Japan to not be developing its military strength.

The Constitution's article opposing war as a solution to conflicts would stand in any revision, and so Japan is committed to never being the first mover in a conflict.

Does the current legislation prevent Japan from having sufficient military capability to defend itself from attack?

Constitutions can be amended.

[TheLastWolf]

Now the conspiracy theorists wont shut the f*ck up...

http://www.conversationswiththecrow.com/

Quote

RTC: Now, now, Gregory, sometimes we can discuss serious business. There were times when we prevented terrible catastrophes and tried to secure more peace. We had trouble, you know, with India back in the 60s when they got uppity and started work on an atomic bomb. Loud mouthed cow-lovers bragging about how clever they were and how they, too, were going to be a great power in the world. The thing is, they were getting into bed with the Russians. Of course, Pakistan was in bed with the chinks, so India had to find another bed partner. And we did not want them to have any kind of nuclear weaponry because God knows what they would have done with it. Probably strut their stuff like a Washington nigger with a brass watch. Probably nuke the Pakis. They‘re all a bunch of neo-coons anyway. Oh, yes, and their head expert was fully capable of building a bomb and we knew just what he was up to. He was warned several times but what an arrogant prick that one was. Told our people to fuck off and then made it clear that no one would stop him and India from getting nuclear parity with the big boys. Loudmouths bring it all down on themselves. Do you know about any of this?

GD: Not my area of interest or expertise. Who is this joker, anyway?

RTC: Was, Gregory, let‘s use the past tense, if you please. Name was Homi Bhabha. 14That one was dangerous, believe me. He had an unfortunate accident. He was flying to Vienna to stir up more trouble, when his 707 had a bomb go off in the cargo hold and they all came down on a high mountain way up in the Alps. No real evidence and the world was much safer.

GD: Was Ali Baba alone on the plane?

RTC: No it was a commercial Air India flight.

GD: How many people went down with him?

14 Homi Jehangir Bhabha, October 30, 1909 – January 24, 1966 was an Indian nuclear physicist who played a major role in the development of the Indian atomic energy program and is considered to be the father of India's nuclear program. He died when Air India Flight 101 crashed near Mont Blanc in January 1966. Strong evidence pointed to a sabotage by the CIA intended at impeding India's nuclear program.

RTC: Ah, who knows and frankly, who cares?

GD: I suppose if I had a relative on the flight I would care.

RTC: Did you?

GD: No.

RTC: Then don‘t worry about it. We could have blown it up over Vienna but we decided the high mountains were much better for the bits and pieces to come down on. I think a possible death or two among mountain goats is much preferable than bringing down a huge plane right over a big city.

GD: I think that there were more than goats, Robert.

RTC: Well, aren‘t we being a bleeding-heart today?

GD: Now, now, it‘s not an observation that is unexpected. Why not send him a box of poisoned candy? Shoot him in the street? Blow up his car? I mean, why ace a whole plane full of people?

RTC: Well, I call it as it see it. At the time, it was our best shot. And we nailed Shastri 15as well. Another cow-loving raghead. Gregory, you say you don‘t know about these people. Believe me, they were close to getting a bomb and so what if they nuked their deadly Paki enemies? So what? Too many people in both countries. Breed like rabbits and full of snake-worshipping twits. I don‘t for the life of me see what the Brits wanted in India. And then threaten us? They were in the sack with the Russians, I told you. Maybe they could nuke the Panama Canal or Los Angeles. We don‘t know that for sure, but it is not impossible.

GD: Who was Shastri?

RTC: A political type who started the program in the first place. Babha was a genius and he could get things done, so we aced both of them. And we let certain people there know that there was more where that came from. We should have hit the chinks, too, while we were at it, but they were a tougher target. Did I tell you about the idea to wipe out Asia‘s rice crops? We developed a disease that would have wiped rice off the map there and it‘s their staple diet. The fucking rice growers here got wind of it and raised such a stink we canned the whole thing. The theory was that the disease could spread around and hurt their pocketbooks. If the Mao people invade Alaska, we can tell the rice people it‘s all their fault.

GD: I suppose we might make friends with them.

RTC: With the likes of them? Not at all, Gregory. The only thing the Communists understand is brute force. India was quieter after Bhabha croaked. We could never get to Mao but at one time, the Russians and we were discussing the how and when of the project. Oh yes, sometimes we do business with the other side. Probably more than you realize.

GD: Now that I know about. High level amorality. They want secrets from us and you give them some of them in return for some of their secrets, doctored, of course. That way, both agencies get credit for being clever.

RTC: Well, you‘ve been in that game, so why be so holy over a bunch of dead ragheads?

GD: Were all the passengers Indian atomic scientists?

RTC: Who cares, Gregory? We got the main man and that was all that mattered. You ought not criticize when you don‘t have the whole story.

15 Lal Bahadur Shrivastav October 2, 1904 - January 11,1966 was the third Prime Minister of the Republic of India and a significant figure in the Indian independence movement. After the declaration of ceasefire, Shastri and Pakistani President Muhammad Ayub Khan attended a summit in Tashkent (former USSR, now in modern Uzbekistan), organised by Kosygin. On 10 January 1966, Shastri and Khan signed the Tashkent Declaration.The next day Shastri, died, supposedly of a heart attack, at 1:32 AM.He was the only Indian Prime Minister, and indeed probably one of the few heads of government, to have died in office overseas. Like the death of Homi Bhabha a few days later, the fatal heart attack has long been suspected as a means on the part of the Russians to remove a potential enemy armed with nuclear weapons.

GD: Well, there were too many mountain goats running around, anyway. They might have gotten their hands on some weapons from Atwood and invaded Switzerland...

Bhabha was like Becquerel, Einstein and Oppenheimer rolled into one for India. Shastri was, well, the PM. And it was the peak of the Cold War, and the CIA aren't exactly known to not eliminate political opponents. All sounds plausible except nobody seems to care