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Is Roose Bolton immortal/undying?


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I think, at these point, majority of the fandom agrees that something is off with Roose, but it's quite hard to point exactly what the fuck is going on. The most popular theories I have seen are:

  • The Bolt-on theory: there is only one immortal Bolton patriarch and uses the skin of others.
  • Other/Half-other Roose: Other Roose, again, is immortal and changes skin to cover himself.
  • Vampire Roose: drinks blood and changes his skin, so he can cover the fact that he is immortal and the same person.

If I forget some other main theory comment it

And tbh most of them have some good points and I get where they are comming from, but still something is off and doesn't fit with the story and the world building. I agree that it makes sense for him to have the vampire elements in the story, but I still find them slightly random to be just that, when 1. we don't know of vampires in general in our story (Mad Danielle and Shiera are the closest, still not similar to Roose) and 2. all the other classic monsters we have in the story are changed enough to fit this specific world.

  • zombies: wights
  • werewolves: wargs
  • frankenstein and monster: Qyburn and Robert Strong

All of them have this Martin-esque touch, so if House Bolton represent the vampires in our story [which makes sense, since the trope Werewolves (Starks) VS Vampires (Boltons) is common], their whole vampire stick works differently.

So, here is my contribution to tinfoil. 

Roose is described like this:

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"His eyes were curiously pale, almost without color, and his look disturbing."

"He had a plain face, beardless and ordinary, notable only for his queer pale eyes. Neither plump, thin, nor muscular, ... Only his eyes moved; they were very pale, the color of ice."

"[Arya] brought Lord Bolton a damp washcloth to wipe down his soft hairless body."

"There was an agelessness about him, a stillness; on Roose Bolton's face, rage and joy looked much the same."

"Roose Bolton’s voice was so soft that men had to strain to hear it, so his chambers were always strangely hushed.""Roose Bolton spoke so softly that men quieted to hear him.""Roose Bolton’s eyes were paler than stone, darker than milk, and his voice was spider soft."His voice was a whisker above a whisper."

"Roose Bolton had a sweeter smell to him, yet no more pleasant. He sipped hippocras in preference to wine or mead, and ate but little."

"This is a cold man, Catelyn realized, not for the first time."

The dude's weird and he looks like an animated corpse with his own mind, it is somewhat close to Coldhands.

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" Coldhands was the name that the fat boy Sam had given him, for though the ranger’s face was pale, his hands were black and hard as iron, and cold as iron too."

"The direwolf did not like the way that Coldhands smelled. Dead meat, dry blood, a faint whiff of rot. And cold. Cold over all."

"Sometimes Coldhands closed his eyes, but Bran did not think he slept. ... “The scarf over his mouth, it never gets all hard with ice, like Hodor’s beard. Not even when he talks.” Meera gave him a sharp look. “You’re right. We’ve never seen his breath, have we?”

""He does not eat, Bran remembered, and he fears the flames.""His voice rattled in his throat, as thin and gaunt as he was."

Pretty similar, but Roose does breath, I mean someone would have noticed if he wasn't at all (maybe he does less, like he is also eating very little too) and also, the guy has kids so he cannot be like Coldhands exactly. So wight is out.

The other people Roose reminds me of are the undying of tHotU,

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"Through the indigo murk, she could make out the wizened features of the Undying One to her right, an old old man, wrinkled and hairless.Could it be that the Undying Ones were dead?Her answer was a whisper as thin as a mouse’s whisker… we live… live… live… it sounded. Myriad other voices whispered echoes… And know… know… know… know… "

but also Bloodraven, yes not connected with a tree, but both of them are pale, look dead, but somehow they are still consious etc etc.

And this is where I am gonna throw the main idea: Roose is doing what the undying are doing, but instead of shade, he is drinking weirwood sap, like the one in the paste Bran ate (that 99% had Jojen's blood too). I know it sounds weird, but hear me out.

Their rival kings were wargs and greensheers, imagine if you could have the immortality/longevity that a greensheer has, (along with other pros I am guessing, even though I don't think they have the whole package in the present day), but without being tied to a tree. You can leave forever, by passing your soul, to the next of your house (Varymir tried to skinchange to another human before dying). This is why he didn't drop Ramsey, it was not because of the gods, he had done worse things. The eyes, like the eyes of the greensheers, shows the next Bolton that you can "pass" your conscience into, kinda like the greensheers and the skinchangers still have their spirits in the trees and the animals after their passing. If the "vessel" is a human one, you are practically immortal. Even though I am guessing the longer you have passed, the spirits become one, like Varymir said. So, Roose is mainly Roose, but he also have parts of the rest of the Boltons before him.

He is described so similar to the trees, that themselves have some vampire, immortal things going on. Both pale, connected with blood, look dead, it's like they try to recreate the magic of the trees, but without the trees. 

Roose drinks mostly hippocras or hot wine. Both red, spiced and alcoholic, so whatever he puts in there along with the sap, can desolve and doesn't smell. And this explains why he is so obsessed with Arya not spilling a drop. If you can do it with shade, you deffinitely can do it with weirwood too. It seems, though, thaat it makes you kinda "souless", immoral and obsessed with immortality (as we have seen with both the undying and Euron). 

And this is only one problem, the second, is the physical changes. The longer you practise it, you look more corpse like, plus people would notice if someone lived for very very long. And this is where the blood and the skins and in general the more traditional vampire stuff come to play.

We know from Coldhands that:

Quote

 

“Once the heart has ceased to beat, a man’s blood runs down into his extremities, where it thickens and congeals.”

“His hands and feet swell up and turn as black as pudding. The rest of him becomes as white as milk.”

 

So this explains the leeches on his arms and legs and also explains why this weird obsession with blood.

Quote

 

" Leeches clung to the inside of his arms and legs and dotted his pallid chest, long translucent things that turned a glistening pink as they fed. Bolton paid them no more mind than he did Arya."

"Frequent leechings are the secret of a long life. A man must purge himself of bad blood."

"Roose Bolton cut his meat methodically, the blood running across his plate. ... The Lord of the Dreadfort sopped up some of the blood with a chunk of bread."

"Even his blood smelled wrong." (Roose, for Reek)

 

So, I am guessing he removes the blood before it turns black and he needs more to replace it. The paste Bran ate is hinted to be Jojen's blood and the trees themselves looks like they need blood, so his sap drink it's also possible that has blood. The Undying seemed like they wanted to drink Danny's blood too and bited her.

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"Teeth found the soft skin of her throat. A mouth descended on one eye, licking, sucking, biting…"

It, also, explains the skinning. This technique sounds similar to the one the faceless men use, we even have this quote:

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Roose Bolton's own face was a pale grey mask, with two chips of dirty ice where his eyes should be.

If you can change your skin and hide from people whatever you want to hide, is pretty usefull and strong magic. Plus, if it works similarly to Arya's and you get their memories too is even more of an advantage. Varymir tried to snatch the body of another skinchanger and the way he was talking, look like you have the power too if the person have magic abilities. Imagine how big of a cheat is having the memories and abilities of you enemies, specially if they are magical like the Starks. 

That is, more or less, what I think is the deal with the Boltons, we can take the hats off now. 

 

Edited by Wolfcrow
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Nice research!  Here's another piece for the puzzle.

When Arya was serving Bolton at Harrenhal, she saw him turning the pages of a very old book, then putting it in the fireplace to burn. I've always wondered what was in that book. 

We know that one of the previous residents of Harrenhal -- I forget which one, possibly Lady Whent or Lothston? -- dabbled in blood magic, and bathed in blood to preserve her youth and beauty.  I'll guess that the book was about blood magic.  Bolton read through it to see if it contained any information he didn't already know, and then burned it to keep its secrets away from everyone else.

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15 hours ago, Aebram said:

possibly Lady Whent or Lothston

Mad Danielle Lothston 9 bats as a sigil), that btw was a Bloodraven's supporter. It was said that she was sending bats to kids and brought them back to her castle to drink their blood.

Like Roose, many vampire elements and I am guessing she was doing something similar too. 

Nice catch!

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Roose Bolton. I’ve always been perplexed by his name. 
Roose defined as Praise or to praise.  
Roose= Ruse? Or Rose?   
Bolton. Bolt defined as a bolt of wool.  
             Bolt of lightning.  
             Bolt as to Bar something.   
             Bolt as to Bolt away    
Bol. Weakly defined as apodiabolosis.
          A lowering to the rank of devil. The opposite of Apotheosis.                    Ascending to become a god.  

Ton. Defined as pitch of voice or Tune.   

 

If we look at Ton as Tune and Bol as Bole: The trunk of a tree.  
We can gleam a few thoughts like: 

The pitched voice of a tree trunk.

Praise on Wool. Sheep or skin worship?
A ruse in wool. Wolf in sheep clothing?  
Praise on lighting. Ruse on lightning?  
Worship Bar or lock. A Fake Lock?   

 

The appearance of Roose is unlike other Northern men. Northern men are dark of hair, hairy and thick featured? Roose appears Targaryen-ish. His son Domeric is described as what you would not expect. With a like of the harp and a kind demeanor.

There is that suspicious scene where Roose appears to know of and accommodate Arya’s plan to leave Harrenhall with a map and dagger. Then there’s the first time we meet Roose with Robb and Catelyn. There is also a map and dagger.


He was seated at a massive stone table, a pile of maps and papers in front of him, talking intently with Roose Bolton and the Greatjon. At first he did not notice her … but his wolf did. The great grey beast was lying near the fire, but when Catelyn entered he lifted his head, and his golden eyes met hers. The lords fell silent one by one, and Robb looked up at the sudden quiet and saw her. "Mother!" he said, his voice thick with emotion.

Catelyn wanted to run to him, to kiss his sweet brow, to wrap him in her arms and hold him so tightly that he would never come to harm … but here in front of his lords, she dared not. He was playing a man's part now, and she would not take that away from him. So she held herself at the far end of the basalt slab they were using for a table. The direwolf got to his feet and padded across the room to where she stood. It seemed bigger than a wolf ought to be. "You've grown a beard," she said to Robb, while Grey Wind sniffed her hand.


The lords were anxious to question her further, but Catelyn raised a hand. "No doubt we will have time for all this later, but my journey has fatigued me. I would speak with my son alone. I know you will forgive me, my lords." She gave them no choice; led by the ever-obliging Lord Hornwood, the bannermen bowed and took their leave. "And you, Theon," she added when Greyjoy lingered. He smiled and left them.

 

His look grew stubborn. "There was no one else."

"No one?" she said. "Pray, who were those men I saw here a moment ago? Roose Bolton, Rickard Karstark, Galbart and Robett Glover, the Greatjon, Helman Tallhart … you might have given the command to any of them. Gods be good, you might even have sent Theon, though he would not be my choice."

"They are not Starks," he said.

 

This scene always bugged me. I thought Robb wasn’t yet able to grow a beard but Theon could. It read as if they knew this lady was not the real Catelyn and played a swop of Robb and Theon. The wolf seemed bigger then it ought? She doesn’t know it’s a dire wolf?She wants to speak to her son alone. Theon waits until he is dismissed her son Robb?
     The no one else comment and not Starks makes me think Starks are the only ones who can truly be a faceless man.

Side note. Tohbo Mots smithy is described like a temple of black and white isn’t it?

If the men around the basalt table are aware of the trick then Bolton is apart of it. Maybe Bolton has acted the part he needs to play or in truth is a Stark with to much wolf blood and needs leeching  when compared to the Arya map and dagger moment both appear to have more going on

Edited by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe
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Nice analysis with good observations. I particularly like the idea of Roose having weirwood sap mixed in his hippocras - there must be more to his favoured drink for sure. And good catches on the whisper thin voices. 

As to Roose being immortal or undying, I think we have to be careful here. You are probably right about Roose recognising Ramsay as a vessel for a soul by way of the similar eyes but I think there is something else going on here. From other characters I've been looking at, including Roose and Ramsay, it appears to be a case of passing along an ancient ancestral soul from one generation to the next, in this case, the soul of a particularly diabolical ancestor. Because of its nature, the ancient soul imparts negative character attributes to its host and this is why Roose uses leeches to suck away his "bad blood."

Ramsay does not leech himself and lives out the full spectrum of evil that he inherits from the soul, something that Roose has noticed and mentioned. 

Quote

His blood is bad. He needs to be leeched. The leeches suck away the bad blood, all the rage and pain. No man can think so full of anger. Ramsay, though ... his tainted blood would poison even leeches, I fear.

—Roose Bolton to Theon Greyjoy

  Theon says Ramsay is only the "shadow" of his father and others name him a "beast in human skin." The beast in human skin suggests he is possessed by a demon-like spirit while the "shadow" reference is in line with the idea that he inherited this demon from his father. I suppose one could say that the ancestral spirit is "undying" because it passes from one generation to the next. Neither Roose nor Ramsay are immortal though. 

Most fans think of the Boltons wearing the skin of Starks in terms of their desiring to attain the magical inheritance of the Starks - skinchanging and greenseeing. I wonder if this is what the Boltons seek or if the wearing of Stark skins represents something else entirely, like shape-shifting. When Arya wears the face of the girl  who sought death to escape the brutality of her father, the face changes her appearance. It appears like a true face to everyone else but it's Arya inside. Wearing the face of someone who has died relates to the Bolton's who wear the skins of dead Starks. It's different from skinchanging where the soul of the skinchanger leaves his body to enter the body of another like we see Bran doing. The skinchanger himself is virtually helpless while his soul resides in another body. He needs to be fed and looked after while "away from his body," - we see this with Bran in the crypts when he spends a lot of time inside Summer. Eating as a boy in wolf does not fill Bran's own stomach. 
Not so with Jaqen or with Arya when she dons a face as a "faceless man/woman." I would say Arya shape-shifts and even though the author does not use the term, there are references to this type of magic, such as Tormund's "Husband to Bears" story. 

Nevertheless, I'm intrigued by your idea regarding the weirwood sap because it draws more attention to Roose's hyppocras. Certainly worth exploring in more detail. 

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Roose is what the First Men were like.  Roose, Brandon, and others of their kind made up the followers of the old gods.  Cruel savages who loved violence.  It doesn't require magic to make a person cruel.  The north is just a savage society.

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Blood sacrifice is well established throughout the ASOIAF, the Boltons are just very in the open about it. Much like the Stoney Dornish and their episodic Vulture King's who like to slash faces and chop hands. Or Vargo wearing a Black Goat helm, his hometown god which demands daily sacrifices…. poor Jamie.

I believe that there are other motives to cutting limbs than just a sadistic past time, and the Bolton flaying is a step up that ladder.

Blood sacrifices are necessary for blood magic, and I believe an argument could be made that sacrifices are the origin of all magic. Throughout the books reference are made about the recorded longevity of past kings during the Age of Heroes, discounted as inaccurate myth by the Andal narrative. Perhaps sustained sacrifices over a long period of time, which the Boltons do in plain view, is the mojo that results in such longevity and imparts dominant genetics upon the lineage (kingsblood).

Add in the Faceless Men’s flayed face collection (with a mojo source likely being the oft visited self sacrifice suicide pool above it) and a regularly blood sacrificing long-lived Bolton wearing the skin of his flayed sons to hide his true age is not really a stretch.

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On 6/14/2022 at 7:34 PM, Wolfcrow said:
  • Other/Half-other Roose: Other Roose, again, is immortal and changes skin to cover himself.

I'm nearest to this one. Though I'm sure Roose only knows himself as a 'normal' mortal, he carries his ghosts with him, similar to Victarion and others, not seeing the puppet strings that pull him. This will only get more obvious as magic grows in the world.

Second thing: magical blood. There are plenty, plenty referenced to humans hybridising with monsters and beasts. Bloodmages are highlighted too. That's enough to take seriously the idea that Roose (and others!) is not fully human. Not a vampire though - like an Other, he's disgusted by blood (cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins.) Strange then that he's usually shown drinking hot spiced wine, when red wine is likened to blood across the books. When he's about to get his hands dirty, maybe.

(Excellent thread everyone, and the best OP I've seen for ages.)

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17 hours ago, Bobity. said:

Blood sacrifices are necessary for blood magic, and I believe an argument could be made that sacrifices are the origin of all magic.

This is certain I think, so far we haven't seen magic that doesn't need blood, even magical folk, like tcotf they do use blood magic, for exaple the hammer of the waters. Even the Andals did sucrifises before their come to Westeros.

My main question is not if they practise blood magic, bc for that I am sure and you gave a tone of examples too, my question is what kind of magic they use. We have seen many ways to use magic and they have many common points, but there are alternations in the practises and the goal. This is what I am trying to understand. 

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On 6/17/2022 at 10:19 PM, Evolett said:

Nevertheless, I'm intrigued by your idea regarding the weirwood sap because it draws more attention to Roose's hyppocras. Certainly worth exploring in more detail. 

I think that, like the shade, the sap paste amplifies your powers. The paste was necessary for Bran to "wed" to the tree, but didn't gave him powers and it only was used once. My question is can someone use practis magic with blood, skin and parts from others with powers to have too,even though their blood was not from the start magical? Because if he is drinking something and not just muled wine (I mean there are many people talk about his drink, for it to be just that), it seems to drink it regularly not just once.

What Roose is doing and even what Euron and the Undying are doing, looks way more corupted and sinister, than just sacrifises. 

Euron is drinking almost only shade at this point, it sure helps somewhere, it's a boost. Is Roose doing something similar, so he can have all the powers that you said? Idk for sure, but it seems possible to me.

 

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Bolt-On is the only one that makes sense. We are unlikely to get literal vampires in the story and besides blood magic is to vampirism what warging is to werewolves, it's the reinterpretation, you are still using involuntarily donated blood of other people to prolong life or gain superhuman powers.

Blood of the Others can be part of it (maybe in the Night King/Night Queen kinda of relationship down the line, certainly not in Roose is an Other and pretends to be human by wearing skins way) and it's likely to pop up in the story, even though it would be better storytelling if the Starks are the ones with it. But than again Starks are Boltons either in the Blackwood/Bracken kind of relationship as expounded by Hos the Hostage or with the help of some magical shenanigans, Boltons wearing skins of Starks could lead to alternate grimdark retelling of Uther Pendragon/Igraine legend. On the related note, there is quite a notorious King of Winter named Brandon Ice Eyes.

As I mentioned Night King, there is another Night Watch legend worth paying attention to, that of the Rat Cook, who devours his own children. Having to flay your descendant so you can live longer is highly similar, at least symbolically. 

Ramsey being flayed alive by Roose is the kind of karmic justice Martin delivers on occasion (Vargo and Mountain, hell even Jaime and Vargo) by using another bad guy to punish worse bad guy in a way good guys wouldn't stoop to. Roose does mention kinslaying quite a bit.

Book burned at Harrenhal was mentioned but I think it's just piece of the puzzle, and special attention should be payed to something that took place soon after, almost ritualistic way in which Roose murdered Robb, up close, personal, longsword thrust through his heart, sacrifice like Nissa Nissa, there is power in king's blood. Roose is certainly up to something supernatural.

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On 6/19/2022 at 1:48 PM, Wolfcrow said:

I think that, like the shade, the sap paste amplifies your powers. The paste was necessary for Bran to "wed" to the tree, but didn't gave him powers and it only was used once.

I would agree that the sap amplifies powers and perhaps this needs checking but I recall Bran eating the paste more than once. However, if the Jojen-paste theory is correct, then Jojen's blood probably also holds amplifying powers - Jojen has the greensight, his prophetic dream visions. Perhaps his "greensight" blood is also a neccessary ingredient in waking the powers of a greenseer. 

 

On 6/19/2022 at 1:48 PM, Wolfcrow said:

My question is can someone use practis magic with blood, skin and parts from others with powers to have too,even though their blood was not from the start magical? Because if he is drinking something and not just muled wine (I mean there are many people talk about his drink, for it to be just that), it seems to drink it regularly not just once.

This is a good question. I'm not sure if someone without any magical inheritance can acquire magical powers but I think those who already have some sort of magic tendencies can progress to more powerful magic, particularly through breaking taboos. We normally associate breaking taboos with a followup punishment but breaking a taboo, which is essentially doing something that is outside of the law as percieved by society, usually has some benefit if one is not caught. Stealing for example breakes the law in all societies. In ancient societies stealing was taboo. The punishment was losing a hand - we see this too in aSoiaF. But a thief stands to gain if he gets away with it however (think also of Varys' biography). So breaking a taboo can also be an opportunity to gain wealth, status.. or magical power. 

Regarding magic, take for example Varamyr. His prologue chapter is quite revealing.

We learn how his parents discovered that he is a warg and how his father gave him to Haggon. As an experienced warg, Haggon teaches Varamyr all there is to know on the subject, including the taboos of warging. We learn that warging refers to the relationship between a man and a wolf. Haggon distinguishes between wargs and skinchangers; he tells us that some skinchangers are capable of inhabiting beasts other than wolves, but not all. This implies that a warg cannot necessarily inhabit other animals. Haggon also frowns on the practice of skinchanging other beasts: 

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Other beasts were best left alone, the hunter had declared. Cats were vain and cruel, always ready to turn on you. Elk and deer were prey; wear their skins too long, and even the bravest man became a coward. Bears, boars, badgers, weasels … Haggon did not hold with such. “Some skins you never want to wear, boy. You won’t like what you’d become.” Birds were the worst, to hear him tell it. “Men were not meant to leave the earth. Spend too much time in the clouds and you never want to come back down again. I know skinchangers who’ve tried hawks, owls, ravens. Even in their own skins, they sit moony, staring up at the bloody blue.” ADWD, Prologue

But at a gathering of wargs and skinchangers, Varamyr meets skinchangers who have other animals including a shadowcat, boar, eagle and so on. He also noted that the skinchangers who had animals other than wolves were in the minority. So being able to skinchange animals other than wolves is not the norm.

Haggon also instructs Varamyr on the taboos of warging and if you read the story closely, you'll realize that Varamyr progressed from warging wolves to skinchanging other animals after breaking a taboo. The taboos are:

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“Men may eat the flesh of beasts and beasts the flesh of men, but the man who eats the flesh of man is an abomination.”

Abomination. That had always been Haggon’s favorite word. Abomination, abomination, abomination. To eat of human meat was abomination (while in the wolf), to mate as wolf with wolf was abomination, and to seize the body of another man was the worst abomination of all. ADWD, Prologue

To summarize:

  1. A warg (man in wolf) must not eat the flesh of man
  2. A warg (man in wolf) must not mate with a female wolf
  3. Spiritually seizing the body of another man is the worst abomination
  4. Cannibalism (man eating man) is taboo

Interestingly, before killing Haggon and eating his heart, Varamyr only had wolves as his spiritual familiars. He had named himself Varamyr Three-Skins on this account. After eating Haggon's heart (and drinking his blood) he was suddenly able to skinchange other animals, the shadowcat, the bear and the eagle, naming himself Varamyr Six-Skins. Note that he broke the first taboo of eating the flesh of man while in his wolf-form. And I suspect breaking this taboo gave him the power to skinchange other animals. Even then, he found it hard to skinchange those animals because they fought him fiercely. I'm not 100% sure of the powers acquired by breaking the second taboo, mating with a female wolf while in wolf-form but I think it involves telepathically controlling animals without having to skinchange them. 

Bran breaks the taboo of seizing the body of another man, the worst abomination - he skinchanges Hodor. And we have reason to believe he's also eaten of human meat (unknowingly), brought to him by Coldhands - the flesh of the renegade Brothers of the Night's Watch. 

Perhaps Bran breaking the taboo of skinchanging another man gives him some extra powers - perhaps it is the key to entering the consciousness of the trees, to becoming a greenseer or maybe it  gives him the power to see without being physically tied to the tree, it's difficult to tell.

So Walder Frey breaking guest right with Roose Bolton committing kingsslaying, also taboos, probably gives him some magical power and the key to what he gains is probably hidden within the Rat Cook story which also involves cannibalism, another taboo. 

Edited by Evolett
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Regarding the book at Harrenhal,

Quote

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/asoiaf/philcon-reports-general-spoilers-t598.html

After the reading, GRRM did a little impromptu Q&A session. Various questions were asked. When my opportunity arrived I asked about the book that Bolton burned at Harrenhall... basically, did Roose burn the book because it had specific information he sought to destroy (i.e. a copy of the book that incriminated Cersei's incest/infidelity) or was he just the kind of guy that, after reading it saw no sense in keeping it?

GRRM's answer was that it was basically the second... Roose had absorbed the information and information is a form of power. Had he left the book intact an enemy might somehow come to possess it and with it the info therein. By destroying the book he guaranteed that the information would not fall into the hands of an enemy.

So basically, burning the book was not an absolute symbol of Roose's desertion from the North. No identification of the book. His answer was simply "Roose had read it. Why leave it lying around where an enemy might read it too?" There was a little more than that but that was the key phrase... all in all, it was character building.

GRRM indicated that basically, any book contained information and the Roose simply destroyed the source of that information after absorbing it. His main implication IIRC (Trebla, Gareth, Terra can you help me out here?) was that the nature of the book was not relevant and that the scene was simply character development.

 

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There are plenty of books and readers within asoiaf, and the author gives them a lot of respect, so destroying a book is a significant event.

Books are usually a record of the world and the part of humans it. My guess is Roose and Joff destroy the world by proxy when they destroy books. 

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Thanks for the good write up.

I'm not onboard with him drinking weirwood sapp and blood. It requires logistics done some part in secret, if it were happening Arya was too close not to notice something awry, and that would have been the perfect opportunity for GRRM to have her notice something awry to seed the idea in the future.

It can be the case that Roose is inspired by the vampire archetype without ever getting into the supernatural.

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On 6/22/2022 at 12:13 PM, Nittanian said:

Regarding the book at Harrenhal,

 

Thanks for the information, but I will respectfully disagree with your conclusion.  It looks to me like you asked an either/or question, and GRRM's answer straddled both possibilities, or if anything, leaned towards the first one:  Roose burned book to keep others from reading it. 

That, of course, has nothing to do with the question of what the book was actually about. I wish the fan had asked whether Bolton is a vampire, or an Other, or a magic user of some sort. That would have been more interesting ... if he answered it.

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Roose has unusual eyes but there are other folk who have strange physical features.  The long face of the Starks for example.  It's a peculiarity and nothing magical. 

A man who doesn't age will have aroused suspicion long ago.  That is all the excuse the Starks needed to attack him and burn his castle down.  

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1 hour ago, Bowen 747 said:

Roose has unusual eyes but there are other folk who have strange physical features.  The long face of the Starks for example.  It's a peculiarity and nothing magical. 

The eyes are the feature we see most of the time be connected with magical blood though, face shape is not. Red, unusuall deep green, purple are some examples we have. The face of the Starks it's not even that weird, they just have long angular faces and not all of them have it. 

Rooses eyes are almost white and the feature that everybody talks about, even though many of them see him every day, they still point it out . He had they eyes that are along with Dany's are described the most. People describe them as moons, something that are pretty close to stars and other celestial bodies that are used for magical eyes in the series. 

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