Jump to content

Jon Snow: The Bastard Returns


Myrddin

Recommended Posts

53 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Do you and Linda get any Story credit?  It’s always cool to see people I know in end credits.  :)

No, no. It's all George's story, we only contributed some editorial notes in its various iterations. But it'd be gauche to critique something based on a work that George wrote for a book with our name on it, in my view. Stuff based on the novels or Dunk & Egg , sure, we've no hand in it and our name isn't on it. Stuff based on material from TWoIaF or expanded upon in F&B, no.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Ran said:

No, no. It's all George's story, we only contributed some editorial notes in its various iterations. But it'd be gauche to critique something based on a work that George wrote for a book with our name on it, in my view. Stuff based on the novels or Dunk & Egg , sure, we've no hand in it and our name isn't on it. Stuffed based on material from TWoIaF or expanded upon in F&B, no.

I’m still excited to see your stuff on HBO.  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/19/2022 at 9:02 PM, Zorral said:

Ya, a series that shows African Americans still enslaved in 2022 and treated as they were treated in 1860 is exactly what a whole lot of people with African ancestry really want to see.  Some White people and other racists and bigots probably would just lurve to look at that, in the same way males just lurved all that nekkid female enslaved sex workers on GOT.

There is no value of any kind in 'exploring' these scenarios, but only harm and real ugly toxic stuff.  Not even micro aggression against entire groups of people, but out-and-out deliberate, scornful desire to create pain and grief.

This is Juneteenth in the USA.  Here where I live it's also early voting in our primary.  There are African American women reporting on their early voting, literally sobbing, that they are so determined to vote, no matter how hard the reichlicans are making it for them, doing everything they can to take away the vote of their ancestry, again making them non-person, non-citizens as it was before 1863.  They are so aware that many of them, in our capitalism 'carcel system are literally worked as slave labor even now -- and they sure can't vote.  The slavery system in the US was quite, quite different,  quite 'peculiar' as the liked to describe it, than it is / was elsewhere -- and still different from the conditions that make virtually enslaved labor in other parts of the world to produce your chocolate and coffee and palm oil.

That anyone would like to shove this stuff as entertainment upon this country, valorizing those who are slaveowners, is just incomprehensible to people who have history, thoughtfulness and empathy.  Because creating narratives in which the protagonist is evil, still pushes the audience to identify and pull for that protagonists.  The only reason anybody would want to do this is because they deliberately wish to cause pain and humiliation on a vast public national scale.

 

It's difficult.  I would find it interesting to watch a series about such a dystopian society, but I take your point entirely that to many African Americans it would be hurtful and ugly, even if it was clear that slavery was not remotely being justified.

It reminds me a bit of the British film, It happened Here, which caused a storm when produced in 1964, depicting the German occupation of Britain, and many British people (including the protagonist) serving as collaborators.  There's a seven minute section where Nazi leader, Colin Jordan, plays himself, as a National Socialist political officer. Jewish groups protested heavily against it.  IMO, it's an outstandingly good film, which in no way justifies Nazism, but nineteen years after the War was probably too soon to release it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Emilia has confirmed that Kit is really involved in this new show.

 

Quote

 

Clarke says: "He has told me about it. And I know it exists. It's happening."

Then, perhaps realising she may have said more than she should have, she adds: "It's been created by Kit as far as I can understand, so he's in it from the ground up. So what you will be watching, hopefully, if it happens, is certified by Kit Harington."

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

 I would find it interesting to watch a series about such a dystopian society

What would be interesting to you about it -- particularly in light that millions are actively, militantly fighting to establish it right now?  What possible revelations could it provide? What use, emotionally or historically or artistically out this could you possibly be expecting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

What would be interesting to you about it -- particularly in light that millions are actively, militantly fighting to establish it right now?  What possible revelations could it provide? What use, emotionally or historically or artistically out this could you possibly be expecting?

Art needs no justification for its existence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Zorral said:

What would be interesting to you about it -- particularly in light that millions are actively, militantly fighting to establish it right now?  What possible revelations could it provide? What use, emotionally or historically or artistically out this could you possibly be expecting?

Kurt Vonnegut put it well.  "An author should be a sadist."  Many of us like seeing the characters we like having to navigate a crapsack world. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, we do not.  Not unless we live such very protected safe lives that it's all just fantasy.  Which it sure as hell is not in These Times for most of us, who are already living in and trying to navigate a crapsack, dystopian world.  SCOTUS just overruled our state's laws against open carry of guns, as a pre-set for invasion of NYC.  People everywhere are targeted, and a lot of it isn't even random -- the Tops supermarket massacre of local African Americans in Buffalo just last month was a prime example.  The guy carefully planned the attack, literally to target African Americans, drove several times from a long ways away where he lived, to reconnoiter, then came with his guns and killed.  Tell the victims and their families this isn't a crapsack world and that they will enjoy reading other people, like them, living in it and trying to stay alive as violent, torturous entertainment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Zorral said:

No, we do not.  Not unless we live such very protected safe lives that it's all just fantasy.  Which it sure as hell is not in These Times for most of us, who are already living in and trying to navigate a crapsack, dystopian world.  SCOTUS just overruled our state's laws against open carry of guns, as a pre-set for invasion of NYC.  People everywhere are targeted, and a lot of it isn't even random -- the Tops supermarket massacre of local African Americans in Buffalo just last month was a prime example.  The guy carefully planned the attack, literally to target African Americans, drove several times from a long ways away where he lived, to reconnoiter, then came with his guns and killed.  Tell the victims and their families this isn't a crapsack world and that they will enjoy reading other people, like them, living in it and trying to stay alive as violent, torturous entertainment.

That's why I said "many" of us do.

Would I want to live in the kind of world depicted in It Happened Here, or The Death of Stalin, or The Man in the High Castle?  Of course not, but I can find such dramas gripping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Martin is involved as an executive producer and "his team" (I suspect specifically referring to his close associate who was a writer on House of the Dragon as well) is going over the project, but I think otherwise his role will be more in the area of consultant and kind of grand-overseer. He's not going to be involved day-to-day in production, any more than he was on House of the Dragon. He even notes that Kit Harington and his writer came up with the idea and brought it to GRRM and HBO, and they're still very much the creative impetus behind it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so getting Dexter New Blood vibes from this show. I'm honestly shocked Jon Snow is a popular enough character to get his own show. He's pretty interesting in the books, but I felt like he was reduced to saying only two lines in the final season, while Arya stole his big moment.............because it subverted our expectations, lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mmn, I think show-Snow was and would be a great straight man to have colorful cast revolve around. I think it's got potential, but [maybe] only if he and the Wildlings eventually gtfo out Westeros. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, sifth said:

I'm so getting Dexter New Blood vibes from this show. I'm honestly shocked Jon Snow is a popular enough character to get his own show. He's pretty interesting in the books, but I felt like he was reduced to saying only two lines in the final season, while Arya stole his big moment.............because it subverted our expectations, lol

So far as I can tell, the most popular main characters were Dany, Jon, and Arya, in that order. Prior to Season Shit, Jon was pretty heroic, so I think Jon is popular enough to carry his own show.

The Further Aventures of Tyrion/Bran/Sansa/Samwell would have much more limited appeal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do find it a little funny that Kit Harington came up with the idea of a show in which he is the main star, at a point in his career where the best he can do is a bit part in a pretty weak Eternals movie. I mean good on him for being ambitious and giving his career a nudge but don't inflict this on the world for selfish reasons.

Also, 'Just write the book' George!' We are all saying it, but even if he just checks in once a month, it's a distraction, combined with all the other million projects going on. I've accepted I will never read it now, my time reading tWoW feel like a lifetime away now, I'm not even angry, just disappointed. 

As for this show. I don't really care. If GRRM is not writing it or never intended to write it then it will just suffer the fate of the last few seasons of GoT I'm sure, veering off into a highly predictable, mainstream direction that would never challenge the audience. It will probably be Turner and Hooch.. but with a Direwolf. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, sifth said:

I'm honestly shocked Jon Snow is a popular enough character to get his own show. 

Jon Snow was hands down the best character in the show. Until D&D ran out of book and had to start writing him themselves.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...