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Jon Snow: The Bastard Returns


Myrddin

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Prediction: if Sophie Turner is involved, Sansa is going to be a villain. Not that there weren't more than enough hints in that direction in GoT, of course, but they were never treated as such. If she is not, Sansa would have died off-screen, likely from childbirth. Jon will end up as the King in teh North either way. This would be on-brand for how the show, and GRRM's ASoIAF writings in aggregate to be honest, treated women who wanted agency and political power.

I guess that GRRM could have some cool ideas re: what Jon's role in battle against the Others was supposed to be, with a journey to to "the heart of winter", etc. But somehow fitting those in after the events of  season 8 is going to be incredibly awkward.

Why did this need to exist, again? Sigh.

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I do find it a little funny that Kit Harington came up with the idea of a show in which he is the main star, at a point in his career where the best he can do is a bit part in a pretty weak Eternals movie. I mean good on him for being ambitious and giving his career a nudge but don't inflict this on the world for selfish reasons.

Also, 'Just write the book' George!' We are all saying it, but even if he just checks in once a month, it's a distraction, combined with all the other million projects going on. I've accepted I will never read it now, my time reading tWoW feel like a lifetime away now, I'm not even angry, just disappointed. 

As for this show. I don't really care. If GRRM is not writing it or never intended to write it then it will just suffer the fate of the last few seasons of GoT I'm sure, veering off into a highly predictable, mainstream direction that would never challenge the audience. It will probably be Turner and Hooch.. but with a Direwolf. 

Ohh dear, I wonder if this will be more Star Trek Picard and less Dexter New Blood. By that I mean, it will be a vanity project, by the person who's basically staring in the show.

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4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I do find it a little funny that Kit Harington came up with the idea of a show in which he is the main star, at a point in his career where the best he can do is a bit part in a pretty weak Eternals movie. I mean good on him for being ambitious and giving his career a nudge but don't inflict this on the world for selfish reasons.

I mean, plenty of actors are also creatively involved in the projects they're working on.  It's not like Kit is alone in that regard.  There are a handful of other shows on HBO alone (Barry, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Righteous Gemstones) that have their lead actors involved in creative as well, and they're generally all pretty good to fantastic.

That doesn't mean this show will be good.  Hell, it may not ever even make it to TV screens.  But Kit's involvement level is, to me, irrelevant as to the ultimate quality of the show.  Maybe he'll end up being a really great voice in the writer's room.  We can't know that until we see the show.

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It makes sense for an actor, after living with the character for 9+ years, to feel some ownership and want to shape how the story progresses. If Kit has a capable group of writers on his team, this could turn out well.

To be frank, I'd rather this came from Kit than from a team of HBO execs whose first priority is expanding their brand with story a very distant second.

 

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17 minutes ago, briantw said:

I mean, plenty of actors are also creatively involved in the projects they're working on.  It's not like Kit is alone in that regard.  There are a handful of other shows on HBO alone (Barry, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Righteous Gemstones) that have their lead actors involved in creative as well, and they're generally all pretty good to fantastic.

That doesn't mean this show will be good.  Hell, it may not ever even make it to TV screens.  But Kit's involvement level is, to me, irrelevant as to the ultimate quality of the show.  Maybe he'll end up being a really great voice in the writer's room.  We can't know that until we see the show.

I think there is a big difference between someone like Larry David or Danny McBride, who are comedians and comedy creators with long histories of creative talent, writing and producing shows that they themselves will star in, and Kit Harrington who is.. a very mediocre actor with a moribund acting career doing the same thing.

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1 hour ago, Myrddin said:

To be frank, I'd rather this came from Kit than from a team of HBO execs whose first priority is expanding their brand with story a very distant second.

Yeah I gotta admit that while I've never been a huge fan of Harington as an actor, the fact this is his passion project and not just a pure money-grab by HBO (which is what it sounded like to me when the news broke) means I'll probably afford the show a little more latitude if it ever comes out.  Like, if it pisses me off I'll give it two to three more episodes.

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It should be noted that Harington co-created and produced Gunpowder, and according to some credits was also an uncredited co-writer alongside Ronan Bennett.

I haven't seen it, but apparently it was well-received.

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11 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I think there is a big difference between someone like Larry David or Danny McBride, who are comedians and comedy creators with long histories of creative talent, writing and producing shows that they themselves will star in, and Kit Harrington who is.. a very mediocre actor with a moribund acting career doing the same thing.

You should read the post by GRRM. He specifically says that there is a team of great writers working on this. I have to trust his word.  It's not like Kit is going to be a one man show.

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16 hours ago, sifth said:

Ohh dear, I wonder if this will be more Star Trek Picard and less Dexter New Blood. By that I mean, it will be a vanity project, by the person who's basically staring in the show.

Eh. Per previous reports he's been working on this for years. It's not like it's a quick cash grab. It just has for whatever reason remained remarkably secret. 

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4 hours ago, dbunting said:

You should read the post by GRRM. He specifically says that there is a team of great writers working on this. I have to trust his word.  It's not like Kit is going to be a one man show.

Yes, this does all sound somewhat hopeful.

Season Shit can’t be erased, but it can be mitigated, perhaps.

I’m guessing it won’t be Political Jon or something equally awful.

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5 hours ago, SeanF said:

Yes, this does all sound somewhat hopeful.

Season Shit can’t be erased, but it can be mitigated, perhaps.

I’m guessing it won’t be Political Jon or something equally awful.

Yea, that's the big question, where do you go from here, when it comes to Jon's story. He basically goes to live with the wildings beyond The Wall at the end of the show. There's not exactly a lot of exciting stuff happening in that part of the world, now that the wildings are friends and The Others are dead.

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They could probably spend at least two episodes on how stupid it was for the new king and his council to send Jon to the Wall when (a) there is no more purpose to the Wall and (b) Jon is literally the most popular figure in Westeros for the people that remain beyond the Wall.

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3 hours ago, sifth said:

Yea, that's the big question, where do you go from here, when it comes to Jon's story. He basically goes to live with the wildings beyond The Wall at the end of the show. There's not exactly a lot of exciting stuff happening in that part of the world, now that the wildings are friends and The Others are dead.

I think bringing the White Walkers back would be fine, I know a lot of people might say it's got "somehow, Palpatine returned" vibes but I think the way the White Walkers were dispatched in season 8 was just too easy for it to be permanent. A

And there's still so many things about the White Walkers that the show left unexplained. like why they disappeared for thousands of years. 

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27 minutes ago, Darryk said:

I think bringing the White Walkers back would be fine, I know a lot of people might say it's got "somehow, Palpatine returned" vibes but I think the way the White Walkers were dispatched in season 8 was just too easy for it to be permanent. A

And there's still so many things about the White Walkers that the show left unexplained. like why they disappeared for thousands of years. 

That would actually be a pretty interesting premise for the show.  Jon, Tormund, and a group of wildlings (perhaps with some ambassadors from the North and the rest of the Six Kingdoms as well) travel into the Land of Always Winter to try to uncover the truth behind the White Walkers.

Although that premise is somewhat undermined by the fact that they could just ask Bran since he is basically an omnipotent god.

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On 6/24/2022 at 3:28 AM, Maia said:

Prediction: if Sophie Turner is involved, Sansa is going to be a villain. Not that there weren't more than enough hints in that direction in GoT, of course, but they were never treated as such. If she is not, Sansa would have died off-screen, likely from childbirth. Jon will end up as the King in teh North either way. This would be on-brand for how the show, and GRRM's ASoIAF writings in aggregate to be honest, treated women who wanted agency and political power.

More likely, Sansa would be a villain, and Bran would be a psychic god-king tyrant. Jon Snow would be unable to contest either one as he remains incompetent in his own efforts at ruling and eventually is assassinated again. Bran and Sansa cause their own undoing as some long persisting personal flaw eventually slaps them down.

I love that about Martin's writing. Women are terrible people, as are men. Human beings are fundamentally awful, regardless of gender, race or orientation - just as it is in real life. Martin may not agree with that in principle, but his writing certain welcomes that interpretation, I think.

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1 hour ago, briantw said:

That would actually be a pretty interesting premise for the show.  Jon, Tormund, and a group of wildlings (perhaps with some ambassadors from the North and the rest of the Six Kingdoms as well) travel into the Land of Always Winter to try to uncover the truth behind the White Walkers.

Although that premise is somewhat undermined by the fact that they could just ask Bran since he is basically an omnipotent god.

I think Bran has to be malevolent, but not omnipotent.  He can use his prescience to map out various futures, but he can’t fold them into one probability.

That’s the perfect driver for totalitarianism as he’s essentially flipping through recordings.

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2 hours ago, Darryk said:

I think bringing the White Walkers back would be fine, I know a lot of people might say it's got "somehow, Palpatine returned" vibes but I think the way the White Walkers were dispatched in season 8 was just too easy for it to be permanent. A

And there's still so many things about the White Walkers that the show left unexplained. like why they disappeared for thousands of years. 

The Night King is just an outrider.

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4 hours ago, SeanF said:

I think Bran has to be malevolent, but not omnipotent.  He can use his prescience to map out various futures, but he can’t fold them into one probability.

It seems as if you really want Bran to be Bloodraven.  Which, I understand considering the show axed Rivers from the whole story, and I love that story, but it just seems weird to me as I love that storyline in the books as well. 

I'm rooting for Bran NOT to become like Bloodraven in the books, as what I love about his POV is the kid dealing with this and trying to retain his humanity.  Again, granted, show Bran already played it in the last season or two as if he was a robot once Sydow bestowed his powers upon him, but still.

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9 hours ago, DMC said:

It seems as if you really want Bran to be Bloodraven.  Which, I understand considering the show axed Rivers from the whole story, and I love that story, but it just seems weird to me as I love that storyline in the books as well. 

I'm rooting for Bran NOT to become like Bloodraven in the books, as what I love about his POV is the kid dealing with this and trying to retain his humanity.  Again, granted, show Bran already played it in the last season or two as if he was a robot once Sydow bestowed his powers upon him, but still.

The TER as a Lovecraftian deity, quite indifferent to the wellbeing of humanity, would fit with his behaviour in later seasons (though, it’s more the two D’s had no idea what to do with him).

The idea that a God-King will fix all problems, and be a benign figure, has always struck me as contrary to the themes of the books.

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6 hours ago, SeanF said:

The TER as a Lovecraftian deity, quite indifferent to the wellbeing of humanity, would fit with his behaviour in later seasons (though, it’s more the two D’s had no idea what to do with him).

The idea that a God-King will fix all problems, and be a benign figure, has always struck me as contrary to the themes of the books.

Ok, fair enough.  If you're saying it would be more consistent with what happened in the show, that's hard to argue.  And no, I certainly don't think Martin's endgame would be instituting a God-King.

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