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The man who brought Gendry to the blacksmith


Zzz_243
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On 6/25/2022 at 5:38 PM, Frey family reunion said:

I think we've met him.  It's Lord Belmore.

Cloak of purple and silver, check.

Substitute grey for brown because of the number of years that have passed and we get the same beard.

Same round shoulder and his stoutness has turned into fat over the years.

As a vale lord or future vale lord it would have made sense that he would have accompanied Lord Arryn to King's Landing.  It also makes sense that Lord Arryn would have sent one of his men to bring Robert's bastard to the blacksmith.

What's more, we're even given blacksmith imagery when we first meet Lord Belmore:

And we even have another common set of imagery with the bells:

And since Lord Belmore now appears to be one of the lords in Petyr's pocket, it makes me wonder how long that relationship has gone on, and when could Petyr have first learned of Gendry's significance.

Holy crap, it’s nice to know these kinds of finds can still happen. Very nicely done.

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I doubt it's Belmore.  Belmore means Jon Arryn's involvement.  But judging by his questions to Gendry, he knew nothing about his background.  If he was ultimately responsible for the apprenticeship, he should at least have known something about Gendry's mother, which he didn't.

Varys looks like a lord because that's who would bring Gendry.  Gendry is obviously Robert's bastard, so it's going to be somebody of rank bringing him, not to mention the money involved, plus the warning to remain silent.  The description could fit Varys, and I think it's likely that Varys brought him to Yoren as well.

 

Edited by Nevets
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4 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I doubt it's Belmore.  Belmore means Jon Arryn's involvement.  [b]But judging by his questions to Gendry, he knew nothing about his background[/b].  If he was ultimately responsible for the apprenticeship, he should at least have known something about Gendry's mother, which he didn't.

Varus looks like a lord because that's who would bring Gendry.  Gendry is obviously Robert's bastard, so it's going to be somebody of rank bringing him, not to mention the money involved, plus the warning to remain silent.  The description could fit Varys, and I think it's likely that Varys brought him to Yoren as well.

 

Gah, also good point. I’m slow today. Let’s split the diff and say it was Varys ~ disguised as Belmore. 

Edited by James Arryn
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21 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I doubt it's Belmore.  Belmore means Jon Arryn's involvement.  But judging by his questions to Gendry, he knew nothing about his background.  If he was ultimately responsible for the apprenticeship, he should at least have known something about Gendry's mother, which he didn't.

Varus looks like a lord because that's who would bring Gendry.  Gendry is obviously Robert's bastard, so it's going to be somebody of rank bringing him, not to mention the money involved, plus the warning to remain silent.  The description could fit Varys, and I think it's likely that Varys brought him to Yoren as well.

 

But it seems like Jon knew, the questions were really specific. And Jon knew about the incest going on in the red keep, big chance he was planning a back up plan, along with Stannis. 

Quote

"They asked to see the boy," the armorer said, "so I took them back to the forge."

The boy shrugged. "How was I, and was I well treated, and if I liked the work, and stuff about my mother. Who she was and what she looked like and all."

The boy, not a boy. They asked for him from the start, they didn't looked at all the boys and saw Genrdy. They went there to find him and it seems they cared about his well-being. They didn't have questions about his identity and they didn't go in blind, they knew where to search and they didn't asked him how he came to work for Tobho.

They were looking for his mother, obviously since an extra person to back up their claims is usefull. The mother and the people on the place she was working (ale house/brothel who knows) could confirm that indeed had sex with Robert and also Robert remembers many of the women he slept with and he could say too, if he indeed slept with her. 

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10 minutes ago, Wolfcrow said:

But it seems like Jon knew, the questions were really specific. And Jon knew about the incest going on in the red keep, big chance he was planning a back up plan, along with Stannis. 

The boy, not a boy. They asked for him from the start, they didn't looked at all the boys and saw Genrdy. They went there to find him and it seems they cared about his well-being. They didn't have questions about his identity and they didn't go in blind, they knew where to search and they didn't asked him how he came to work for Tobho.

They were looking for his mother, obviously since an extra person to back up their claims is usefull. The mother and the people on the place she was working (ale house/brothel who knows) could confirm that indeed had sex with Robert and also Robert remembers many of the women he slept with and he could say too, if he indeed slept with her. 

Stannis told Renly and Catelyn that he had found out about the incest and went to Jon Arryn with the knowledge.  So the visit is likely Stannis's doing.

Gendry is young enough that he should have been living with his mother before the apprenticeship.  Whoever arranged it would have known his mother was dead.  Since Arryn didn't know, he didn't arrange it, nor did his agent.

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I remember being under the impression that Stannis found out by accident; saw Gendry when he was "shopping" for new armor.  Having seen both Robert and Renly growing up, he would have instantly noted the resemblance, and then informed Jon Arryn.  

Robert grew up in the Vale, so it is possible he and Benedar Belmore met and became friendly even before the rebellion.  If so, it is possible that he was entrusted to take care of this for Robert, and in return hoped to gain the favor the new king.  Jon Arryn need not be involved.

However, this leads us back the question of who delivered Gendry to Yoren.  I don't believe there is anything to suggest Benedar was anywhere near King's Landing, which leads us back to Varys.  Additionally, keeping tabs on people and hiding things is exactly what Varys does.  We also know he was responsible for checking on and sending gifts to Edric Storm.  And of course Varys was fully aware of Cersei's children being bastards.

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10 hours ago, Nevets said:

Stannis told Renly and Catelyn that he had found out about the incest and went to Jon Arryn with the knowledge.  So the visit is likely Stannis's doing.

Gendry is young enough that he should have been living with his mother before the apprenticeship.  Whoever arranged it would have known his mother was dead.  Since Arryn didn't know, he didn't arrange it, nor did his agent.

The think is, we don't know when Stannis found out and told Jon. This could have been way before this talk, bc in this talk both look like they knew for quite sometime. 

I think it was just the first time Jon and Stannis themselves talked with the boy and this is why they were found and Jon was killed. 

As for the mother, we don't know anything. Big chance he was living for a little bit with Gendry, while he was an apprentice. By giving him to tobho, they make sure his and his mother don't move around, leave etc etc. The thing is they lost the mom in the meantime.

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On 6/26/2022 at 3:04 PM, Zzz_243 said:

Interesting but that still doesn't explain why the man was cloaked, like he was trying to hide his appearence. And why pay for the silence?

The silence is to stop Cersei finding out. The hiding doesn't make a lot of sense - if Belmore wanted to hide he'd wear a plainer cloak. I'd guess it's just the smith keeping his client's name confidential. (He is a very high class smith, after all.)

23 hours ago, Zzz_243 said:

But Jon Arryn was asking informations about the boy to the blacksmith. If he already knew about him, it wouldn't make sense to do that. Instead it makes more sense that he learned about Gendry when he was searching for Robert's bastards. I still think that the hooded man was Varys (his camouflage looks like the kind Varys would use, like when he visits Ned in the cells).

Assuming it's Jon, he has two separate issues with Gendry. First, the queen's murderous attitudes to Robert's bastards. For that, Jon doesn't need to meet or speak with or even think about Gendry - he just becomes aware that a bastard exists, and he sends someone to move him to safety.

The second issue is the problem of proving the twincest, which happens years later.  Jon (and Varys) hunt up all the bastards they can.

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17 hours ago, Nevets said:

I doubt it's Belmore.  Belmore means Jon Arryn's involvement.  But judging by his questions to Gendry, he knew nothing about his background.  If he was ultimately responsible for the apprenticeship, he should at least have known something about Gendry's mother, which he didn't.

Varys looks like a lord because that's who would bring Gendry.  Gendry is obviously Robert's bastard, so it's going to be somebody of rank bringing him, not to mention the money involved, plus the warning to remain silent.  The description could fit Varys, and I think it's likely that Varys brought him to Yoren as well.

 

It’s fairly clear that Arryn knew about the location of Robert’s bastards, he was the one who brought Stannis around to show him the bastards.

The only questions Arryn asked the boy other than how he was treated etc., was about the boy’s mother.  So it may very well be the case that the mother had died prior to Arryn’s involvement with the child.  Which is why Arryn would have been the one left to try and take care of the child because it was known the child was one of Robert’s.  

Arryn was showing Stannis all of Robert’s bastards that Arryn knew about, to prove his theory that all of Robert’s children should have black hair.

Quote

     Ned smiled. “Did you make a falcon helm for Lord Arryn?”
        Tobho Mott paused a long moment and set aside his wine. “The Hand did call upon me, with Lord Stannis, the king’s brother. I regret to say, they did not honor me with their patronage.”

Quote

“They asked to see the boy,” the armorer said, “so I took them back to the forge.”

Quote

“He’s done nothing that requires my forgiveness. Gendry, when Lord Arryn came to see you, what did you talk about?”

“He asked me questions is all, m’lord.”
        “What sort of questions?”
        The boy shrugged. “How was I, and was I well treated, and if I liked the work, and stuff about my mother. Who she was and what she looked like and all.”
        “What did you tell him?” Ned asked.
        The boy shoved a fresh fall of black hair off his forehead. “She died when I was little. She had yellow hair, and sometimes she used to sing to me, I remember. She worked in an alehouse.”

 

Edited by Frey family reunion
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1 hour ago, Springwatch said:

The silence is to stop Cersei finding out. The hiding doesn't make a lot of sense - if Belmore wanted to hide he'd wear a plainer cloak. I'd guess it's just the smith keeping his client's name confidential. (He is a very high class smith, after all.)

Assuming it's Jon, he has two separate issues with Gendry. First, the queen's murderous attitudes to Robert's bastards. For that, Jon doesn't need to meet or speak with or even think about Gendry - he just becomes aware that a bastard exists, and he sends someone to move him to safety.

The second issue is the problem of proving the twincest, which happens years later.  Jon (and Varys) hunt up all the bastards they can.

I think at this point and time the only issue was proving that Cerseis children were not Robert's.  Otherwise, Arryn would have taken additional steps to move the children if he thoght they were in danger from Cersei.

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18 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I think at this point and time the only issue was proving that Cerseis children were not Robert's. 

Precisely. Different motivations for different times, separated by several years (time enough for Gendry to learn armour smithing to a very high standard, e.g. the bull helmet).

ETA

Though also note that Arryn is a decent sort - asking how Gendry was and how he was treated. Questions someone sponsoring an apprentice might ask. But he hadn't felt the need before, so the visit was all about gathering proof of twincest.

Edited by Springwatch
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