Heresy 242 Jon Stark

[LynnS]

18 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Its painted/lacquered though, not inherently red, so yes could be weirwood.

I do find speculation that Melisandre is the daughter of Bloodraven and Shierra to be compelling and we know she ends up in Asshai at some point.  Perhaps Melissa Farman provided the means for transportation and has been stranded there since.  If she did cross the Sunset Sea; she could be a useful navigator if Dany also crosses the Sunset Sea to go to Westeros.  That's some shiny tinfoil!  

[TheLastWolf]

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Melissa

Melisandre

Elissa

Intentional misspelling on your part?

[LynnS]

4 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Melisandre

Elissa

Intentional misspelling on your part?

OH MY!

[Black Crow]

37 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Its painted/lacquered though, not inherently red, so yes could be weirwood.

I though the weirwoods [white] had red eyes and red mouths, not red faces.  Jon, remember, recognises Ghost as belonging to the Old Gods because he has a white face and red eyes and mouth

[TheLastWolf]

2 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

I though the weirwoods [white] had red eyes and red mouths, not red faces.  Jon, remember, recognises Ghost as belonging to the Old Gods because he has a white face and red eyes and mouth

White weirwood is easy to paint on, that's what I meant.

Blood?

[LynnS]

46 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

I though the weirwoods [white] had red eyes and red mouths, not red faces.  Jon, remember, recognises Ghost as belonging to the Old Gods because he has a white face and red eyes and mouth

Most of them; but not all:

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Bran VII

"Good," the maester said. "A good boy. Your . . . your father's son, Bran. Now go."

Osha gazed up at the weirwood, at the red face carved in the pale trunk. "And leave you for the gods?"

 

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Bran II

Bran nodded sagely. Mystery knights would oft appear at tourneys, with helms concealing their faces, and shields that were either blank or bore some strange device. Sometimes they were famous champions in disguise. The Dragonknight once won a tourney as the Knight of Tears, so he could name his sister the queen of love and beauty in place of the king's mistress. And Barristan the Bold twice donned a mystery knight's armor, the first time when he was only ten. "It was the little crannogman, I bet."

"No one knew," said Meera, "but the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face."

 

 

[Brad Stark]

Quote

To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. 

I also read this as Quaithe wanting Dany to sail around the world, but south and north don't make sense.

If I live in California in the West, sailing off the edge of the map makes sense if I want to get to Japan in the East.  But sailing for South to Antarctica if I want to go to Alaska does not.

[Brad Stark]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

Quaithe's red wooden mask is curious.  I'm reminded of Morna wood witch and her mask of weirwood.  Also that weirwoods are sometimes depicted as having a red face.  Given Shierra's connection to Bloodraven;  I wonder about the meaning of the mask or what it could represent.

Given Mance's cloak story, I assumed red was a popular color in Asshai.  This doesn't tell me much, except Quaithe is probably being honest about being from there.

[TheLastWolf]

3 minutes ago, Brad Stark said:

Given Mance's cloak story, I assumed red was a popular color in Asshai.  This doesn't tell me much, except Quaithe is probably being honest about being from there.

Or strengthening her story

[Black Crow]

It all depends on origins. We tend to think of red being associated with Fire in a religious context, ie; the Red Lot, of whom Melisandre, Thoros, Benero and Moqorro are notable examples, but what if the Red originates in Asshai, where the dragons come from 

[LynnS]

4 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

Given Mance's cloak story, I assumed red was a popular color in Asshai.  This doesn't tell me much, except Quaithe is probably being honest about being from there.

It's also a popular colour with the red priests.  I wonder if their temples have red doors.

[Frey family reunion]

4 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

I also read this as Quaithe wanting Dany to sail around the world, but south and north don't make sense.

If I live in California in the West, sailing off the edge of the map makes sense if I want to get to Japan in the East.  But sailing for South to Antarctica if I want to go to Alaska does not.

I have to confess I don't really understand the debate here.  Quaithe has already confirmed to Dany that she wants Dany to go to Asshai.  Basically, she's telling her before you go to Westeros you need to journey to Asshai ot obtain the "truth".

 

[LynnS]

55 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I have to confess I don't really understand the debate here.  Quaithe has already confirmed to Dany that she wants Dany to go to Asshai.  Basically, she's telling her before you go to Westeros you need to journey to Asshai ot obtain the "truth".

 

I think that Dany has jumped to a conclusion about Asshai by the shadow.

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys III

Dany's wrist still tingled where Quaithe had touched her. "Where would you have me go?" she asked.

"To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

Asshai, Dany thought. She would have me go to Asshai. "Will the Asshai'i give me an army?" she demanded. "Will there be gold for me in Asshai? Will there be ships? What is there in Asshai that I will not find in Qarth?"

 

In order for Dany to proceed she has to go back to Vaes Dothrak.  I believe the shadow Quaithe is talking about is the shadow beneath the Mother of Mountains:

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys V

The wild stallion's heart was all muscle, and Dany had to worry it with her teeth and chew each mouthful a long time. No steel was permitted within the sacred confines of Vaes Dothrak, beneath the shadow of the Mother of Mountains; she had to rip the heart apart with teeth and nails. Her stomach roiled and heaved, yet she kept on, her face smeared with the heartsblood that sometimes seemed to explode against her lips.

 

Since Quaithe knows about Dany's visions in the House of Undying; what happens to Dany there must have something to do with this vision:

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

Faster and faster the visions came, one after the other, until it seemed as if the very air had come alive. Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible. A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow. Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged. A white lion ran through grass taller than a man. Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed. Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. "Mother!" they cried. "Mother, mother!" They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them . . .

 

Dany assumes she means Asshai and Quaithe does not correct her.  GRRM has said that Dany will not be going to Asshai but we will learn more about it.  I suppose he can change his mind; but perhaps he intends for Dany to have some visions about; it something that may have to be explained by someone who has been there - like Marwyn for example.

Since we are going to learn more about Quathe as well; I imagine she will continue to tell Dany what she must do along each leg of her journey; in her typically cryptic way.

The first thing she has to do is pass beneath the shadow and touch the light.  She must accomplish something there before she can move forward.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by LynnS

[alienarea]

It feels like the gardener let his garden grow out of control, but then he got sponsored a lawnmower, cut a path and now claims this has always been the plan.

[LynnS]

Alt Shift X description of Caraxes made me laugh so hard. Poor dragon is effed-up like he's put together completely all wrong.

 

[LynnS]

OH!  Here's the Ryan Condal interview with History of Westeros:

 

[EggBlue]

Lynn , my friend,  you should really post all these HOT D content in HOT D threads , so show-fans can see!

[LynnS]

43 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

Lynn , my friend,  you should really post all these HOT D content in HOT D threads , so show-fans can see!

Oh, sure.  I will do that. Although, it's the Heretics that need convincing. 

[LynnS]

Another thought about Quaithe's instructions.  Perhaps we should take her literally and move backwards through them; starting with "passing beneath the shadow to touch the light".  Something must happen at Vaes Dothrak before she goes on the next leg of her journey. Travelling East until she reaches the West.  Once she reaches the West, perhaps she must start in the South and travel North.   Making landfall in Dorne presents a whole bunch of questions about why that would be necessary.  Dany keeps asking to be shown the path.  This sounds like a path to me.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

Lynn , my friend,  you should really post all these HOT D content in HOT D threads , so show-fans can see!

Um, I assume you are talking about the two interviews by History of Westeros? Is there a place to put them on the HotD forums?  I haven't been looking at that forum because I'm trying to remain as unsullied as possible. 

I'm also assuming that most people know about some of these channels like History of Westeros, In Deep Geek, Joe Magician, Not a podcast, Radio Westeros, LML, Alt Shift X.... LOL!

I just got into these channels recently.  I have posted some livestreams on the General Forum before and I'm not sure that people can spend 2 hours listening.  That's for die hard nerds like myself.  But I do find them interesting and insightful.