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Warring Across the Stars...With their...Wars....and Stuff


IlyaP
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2 hours ago, sifth said:

I just love that we're 4 episodes in and haven't even seen a stormtrooper yet. This is the least fan service, I've seen from a Star Wars show, in a long while.

To be fair, there are a ton of little Easter eggs, but they're more subtle. Anyone who wishes to pause certain shots can do so to their delight.

Edit: I think there were some stormtroopers in the scene when the ISB officers berates the corporate guys. But they were so out of shot, it was blink or miss it.

Edited by Corvinus85
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8 hours ago, sifth said:

Funny how this is the most mature I’ve seen SW be. No pointless action and over the top lightsaber crap.

I don't mean to be critical, but if you like a Star Wars show because it has no lightsabers or stormtroopers, I can't understand what the attraction of it being a Star Wars show is.

8 hours ago, sifth said:

Heck it makes me feel like I’m watching The Wire at times.

That's a wild thing to say. I like this show, but it's not within light years of earning a Wire comparison.

ETA - this was probably my least favourite episode, but it does have some really great work by Stellan Skarsgard, who I am just in awe of as an actor. Genevieve O'Reilly looks like she's going to be brilliant in this as well.

Edited by mormont
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58 minutes ago, mormont said:

I don't mean to be critical, but if you like a Star Wars show because it has no lightsabers or stormtroopers, I can't understand what the attraction of it being a Star Wars show is.

That's a wild thing to say. I like this show, but it's not within light years of earning a Wire comparison.

ETA - this was probably my least favourite episode, but it does have some really great work by Stellan Skarsgard, who I am just in awe of as an actor. Genevieve O'Reilly looks like she's going to be brilliant in this as well.

I like the OT just fine, same with the Clone Wars cartoon. It's more a case of I think aside from The Mandalorian, everything Disney has done with the IP has been wrong, before this show. R1 was probably the closest they've come to doing something good movie wise, but even that is a flawed product, with disturbing things like CGI Peter Cushing and Forest Whitakers character randomly deciding to give up on life.

So yea, seeing SW trying something mature for a change, is a welcome breath of fresh air, especially when compared to crap like the Book of Boba Fett.

The first episode dealt with a cop being told by his corrupt boss to forge information, because he wanted a cleaner record when filing his monthly report. That very much is a Wire plot line. Same with the cops on the show, being fed up with falsifying information.

Edited by sifth
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26 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

The sleepy kid… seem like he might be force sensitive? He immediately latched on to and accepted Andor.

I was actually thinking he could be an Imperial infiltrator. Just preparing myself for all possibilities. When he immediately grabs that model piece from Vel saying it's fragile, it could be that he's put too much effort in the model and is dedicated... or, tin foil hat time... there's an Imperial device in it, and the Imperial are preparing to catch the team in the act.

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So I am probably giving this show extra credit for being Star Wars, because essentially what Andor is, is a heist / espionage thriller, set in the SW universe.. but so far it's only SW if you really look hard. And you know what, I am fucking down for that!

I've always felt like the best franchise properties try to take the best genre ingredients and flavour themselves with the franchise spices. For instance Winter Soldier is essentially a spy thriller, and is treated as such, but with a Marvel sprinkle. The more you get lost in trying to throw the franchise elements in your face the less interesting something becomes. This feels like it's basically Tinker Tailor or Little Drummer Girl or Bourne or Munich but it just happens to have Tie Fighters in it.

That's why I am so enthralled with this show as well, it's taken the SW ball and run with it. Its saying 'this is what it is really like to exist in this universe'. Whereas something like Boba Fett and Obi Wan (and maybe even Mando a bit though that is forgivable) just pull out the usual tropes of some dusty desert planet, cantinas and memberberries from other movies, I genuinely think that Andor has taken the essence of Star Wars and expanded on it in a realistic and logical way, and again, I fucking love it.

Firstly, the design of the show is absolutely gorgeous. Many of the shots look like actual paintings and are beautiful. I was pretty staggered looking at the brutalist architecture as the young Pre-Mor officer went home to get a slap from his mum. It was a brilliant illustration of 70's design you would actually see in many tower blocks, but exactly how you would imagine an Empirical construction company in the SW universe would design it.

Another example is Mon Mothma's apartment,  a sort of classically art deco opulent layout, but the doorways were mirroring those in a star destroyer in shape. It's stuff like that, that really excites me. You can really see the attention to detail and thought that has gone into a lot of it. 

It's painful to think about how this compares to the garbage in Obi Wan, where everything felt like a total afterthought, like they were in such a rush to get to money shots or just move things along, they barely paid attention to.. anything!

Anyway, sure this is more of a setup episode, but there was a lot to like:

Skarsgard was brilliant this episode, loved that moment where he is putting on his new persona, and he wore it well. There is also that moment where he just flips in 'LOOK AT ME!!!' that I thought was great, that sort of writing where it demonstrates emotion and frustration and wasn't just a standard exposition dump. It was clever and well performed.

Everyone is great in this though. Think Mon Mothma was really interesting. Something very powerful about seeing her life before the rebellion and what led to it, that might actually be the most intriguing part of the show. 
I liked all the new rebellion crew members too. Having James from End of the F***ing World in it gives you extra bonus points.

Plus as I said above, I think the show really does a good job of expanding on what the Empire really is in reality. It's a centralised authoritarian machine, like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany full of middle managers just trying to work within the system, not make waves, not question anything, whilst also trying to selfishly advance their own status. Those officers like Peter Cushing in A New Hope cowering from Vader felt like they all came from this school and that was that concept expanded out. It felt right. 

Either way, maybe not the most exciting episode but I respect the fuck out of this show. 

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So before Gilroy started shooting this show he worked with his production designer for something like 3 months to figure out how everything in the show should look. From the interior of apartments to ships to droids and everything in between. This is according to some podcast i heard him on. You can totally see all the effort that went into those months, all the work, all the attention to detail, the way things look like they FIT. It's phenomenal work. 

The show DOES have some pacing issues, but its so much fun to look at as a SW fan...

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On 9/28/2022 at 6:32 PM, sifth said:

I just love that we're 4 episodes in and haven't even seen a stormtrooper yet. This is the least fan service, I've seen from a Star Wars show, in a long while.

This episode mentioned ARS DANGOR and SLY MOORE by name, and it referenced the Vizier's office ... that's just incredible for all that Imperial Hierarchy stuff. One really hopes they didn't just talk about the dinner, but we are actually going to see Mon Mothma feasting Palpatine's top cronies.

That is fan service beyond my wildest dreams. I'd die a happy man if they were to eventually mention DIRECTOR ISARD as the head of the ISB, leaving it vague whether Armand Isard or his daughter and successor, the indomitable Ysanne 'Iceheart' Isard, is already in charge (as per the old EU she toppled her dad shortly before the destruction of the Death Star).

The ISB is a EU creation, so it would fit very well if they were to use or at least reference the iconic characters running the organization in the EU.

And, guys, Ars Dangor is one of the most obscure Palpatine cronies there are. Practicially insane to have him referenced.

The portrayal of the ISB on the mid-tier level is also top notch. We are finally getting what I wanted to see since, well, as long as I can think. The PT was this big thing I used to dream about watching in the mid-1990s, and I always wanted to see the massive scale and size of the Republic and the subsequent Empire. All those Senators and officials must do something, must be seen. The PT could never properly depict the size and complexity of the galactic institutions (although TCW and the successor shows certainly added layers of complexity to it).

To just blantantly start with the mid-level management of the villains is perfect. Also them taking their time to depict journeys across Coruscant and stuff. Also liked the design and colors on Coruscant and Mon Mothma's wardrobe approaching the simplicity of the OT.

Mon Mothma was always one of my most favorite characters in the EU, right from the time she gave very special missions to Kyle Katarn in a certain old DOS game. I liked it to see her in TCW and Rebels, and I'm very glad she is back for this show.

Less happy with the diversity among the rebel terrorist gang. At least one non-human could have been among them. Yes, things are very humanocentric in the OT, but it feels always cheap to depict the Rebels as a 'human only' movement.

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11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Less happy with the diversity among the rebel terrorist gang. At least one non-human could have been among them. Yes, things are very humanocentric in the OT, but it feels always cheap to depict the Rebels as a 'human only' movement.

Given the lack of species diversity within imperial ranks, a non-human would not be very helpful if you're trying to infiltrate an imperial base, unless they have a prison. ;)

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5 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Given the lack of species diversity within imperial ranks, a non-human would not be very helpful if you're trying to infiltrate an imperial base, unless they have a prison. ;)

Not a bad argument, but then the colonists/people on the planet could have been non-human, and we could see workers/helpers from that specis both in the Imperial base and among the rebel terrorist gang.

That wouldn't be that hard.

The camp gave me a weird boyscouts camp vibe ... would have been better if it was less generic (i.e. could have happened on Earth this way, basically) and more Star Warsy.

But that's just a minor quibble - so far I really love that show.

Partially rewatching Kenobi with my brother I must say I also grew to like that one more. The plot holes and stupidity of the Inquisitors/Empire is still silly, but I really do love little Leia!

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19 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Less happy with the diversity among the rebel terrorist gang. At least one non-human could have been among them. Yes, things are very humanocentric in the OT, but it feels always cheap to depict the Rebels as a 'human only' movement.

I feel the diversity of the Republic in the prequels was the mistake. In the original trilogy the Empire clearly ruled human-colonised space, with aliens being a minority outside of fringe worlds like Tatooine. Having humanity as just one species amongst many in the Republic doesn't fit with what comes after, and despite that background, the main characters of the prequels were still overwhelmingly human. And the sequel trilogy doesn't even attempt to introduce a major new non-human.

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1 hour ago, felice said:

I feel the diversity of the Republic in the prequels was the mistake. In the original trilogy the Empire clearly ruled human-colonised space, with aliens being a minority outside of fringe worlds like Tatooine. Having humanity as just one species amongst many in the Republic doesn't fit with what comes after, and despite that background, the main characters of the prequels were still overwhelmingly human. And the sequel trilogy doesn't even attempt to introduce a major new non-human.

That's not exactly accurate, since we don't really see any proper Imperial worlds in the OT. But we do get Sullustans and Mon Calamari as crucial parts of the Rebel fleet in ROTJ. The Bothans are also mentioned. The PT built on that.

And to be sure - there are lots of worlds in the Republic/Empire and outside that were colonized by humans - an entire region of the galaxy is called 'the Colonies', after all - so it is not wrong to have lots of humans running around.

It is just that the PT and EU did establish and flesh out lots and lots of non-human species, and they should use them.

That the military is predominantly human doesn't mean other parts of the Empire/Rebellion and/or the Imperial bureaucracy have to be ... and it most definitely doesn't mean any new planet they might be (re-)visiting in new shows and movies has to be predominantly human.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

That's not exactly accurate, since we don't really see any proper Imperial worlds in the OT. But we do get Sullustans and Mon Calamari as crucial parts of the Rebel fleet in ROTJ. The Bothans are also mentioned. The PT built on that.

One Sullustan, and there's no evidence in the movie the Bothans aren't human. I interpret the Mon Calamari as neighbours who fear Imperial expansion into their territory rather than current subjects of the Empire who are rebelling; their forces are too much more impressive than any other faction in the Alliance.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

That the military is predominantly human doesn't mean other parts of the Empire/Rebellion and/or the Imperial bureaucracy have to be ...

What's the explanation for the militaries being so overwhelmingly human if that doesn't reflect the makeup of the Empire's general population, then? Especially when the prequels establish humans as inferior to many other species (Anakin being the only human on Tatooine who can pod race).

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26 minutes ago, felice said:

One Sullustan, and there's no evidence in the movie the Bothans aren't human. I interpret the Mon Calamari as neighbours who fear Imperial expansion into their territory rather than current subjects of the Empire who are rebelling; their forces are too much more impressive than any other faction in the Alliance.

An interpretation that flies into the face of how things stand in TESB and ROTJ. Ackbar isn't some ally of the Rebellion, he is part of them, and the Mon Cal cruisers are there at the end of TESB already.

I'm with you that GL could have stuck with the Republic/Empire being almost exclusively human ... but he didn't.

26 minutes ago, felice said:

What's the explanation for the militaries being so overwhelmingly human if that doesn't reflect the makeup of the Empire's general population, then? Especially when the prequels establish humans as inferior to many other species (Anakin being the only human on Tatooine who can pod race).

We know they had a clone army of humans, so it stands to reason part of the reason why the Empire seems to exclusively recruit humans as troopers later on might have to do with their tech being standardized for human soldiers.

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It's another way andor is less star warsy. If you recall there were not a whole lot of aliens in rogue one either - basically just saw's crew. Seems like this group just doesn't go that way aside from a few background folks. 

Probably saves some on cgi but it does feel like a missed opportunity.

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