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Warring Across the Stars...With their...Wars....and Stuff


IlyaP
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9 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Wait. The planet that Andor is on as an adult isn't the same one the tribe of kids was on?  

 

7 minutes ago, Rhom said:

When they were running down his background at corporate security, didn't they say that mining planet had been abandoned and reported as toxic.  (I wondered about that when all the dead ship crew looked like they had jaundice... :dunno: )

Correct. The planet they're currently on in the 5BBY timeline isn't the one that Andor is seen on as a kid. That's some failed mining operation where he was stranded or hosed, probably like 15BBY or something like that. He's on a totally different system now. 

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2 hours ago, Maltaran said:

Is this the first time they’ve actually used the BBY/ABY dating system on screen?

I think so -- I think that I only know it from wookiepeedia and the like.

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2 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

This short video has an interesting theory.

Thought about them ripping this plot from the Honoghr story as well, although I hope the real issue regarding destruction will be the mining stuff. But then - the Honoghr incident poisoned the soil for a time, even if it didn't kill more people, so it is certainly possible.

I kind of a forgot that little Andor apparently also saw offworlders mining on the planet, so some of them were already there at that time.

The false flag operation idea isn't bad, although it might also be it was CIS scientists, and the guys killed by the children were Republic highjackers. After all, the ship likely crushed in what would have been a space battle of sorts.

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5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I kind of a forgot that little Andor apparently also saw offworlders mining on the planet, so some of them were already there at that time.

Yeah that's what i meant. I assumed one of the two warring factions was strip mining the planet to build planet killing star ships. Thought it was Empire 

 

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I’ve seen all 3 episodes of Andor now and I don’t want to get over excited but I think it might be completely brilliant.

Not sure I’m seeing the criticism that the show is slow or that very little happens. Because the plot is so streamlined, it doesn’t run around telling 100 different stories at once, everything feels connected and every plot point adds to the last so you always feel like there is momentum. I couldn’t say the same thing about something like Rings of Power, where lots of things happened but it didn’t feel like anything ever happened. 
 

That third episode though was expertly crafted. The build up of tension, the acting, the emotional beats especially at the end were magnificent.

Feels weird to actually watch something that is genuinely good , as opposed to sort of good. 

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10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’ve seen all 3 episodes of Andor now and I don’t want to get over excited but I think it might be completely brilliant.

Not sure I’m seeing the criticism that the show is slow or that very little happens. Because the plot is so streamlined, it doesn’t run around telling 100 different stories at once, everything feels connected and every plot point adds to the last so you always feel like there is momentum. I couldn’t say the same thing about something like Rings of Power, where lots of things happened but it didn’t feel like anything ever happened. 
 

That third episode though was expertly crafted. The build up of tension, the acting, the emotional beats especially at the end were magnificent.

Feels weird to actually watch something that is genuinely good , as opposed to sort of good. 

I love every bit of the show.

I was just thinking about the street escape featuring a speeder bike... and I couldn't help but compare it to BoBF and the slow mo speeder chase.  Its amazing that these two things could co-exist in the same universe.  I almost feel like Disney needs their own rating system.  Slap a grown up label on things like Rogue One and Andor, then have the kid label on Boba Fett/sequel trilogy, etc.

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Folks, I hate to say it. But this is Star Wars. It has space wizards who're also samurai because that's twice as cool as regular space wizards. It's all for kids. Some of us kids are a bit older, is all.

Finished the third episode and that more or less reinforces my initial impressions: this is a series made of marvellous bits (the shootout in the factory was a blast, literally, the performances are terrific, the production looks great, some of the dialogue is prerty strong) but it's taken three whole episodes to get to what should have been the end of episode 1. I'm hoping the pace picks up, but if not, it's fun to hang around in the programme waiting.

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10 minutes ago, mormont said:

Folks, I hate to say it. But this is Star Wars. It has space wizards who're also samurai because that's twice as cool as regular space wizards. It's all for kids. Some of us kids are a bit older, is all.

Finished the third episode and that more or less reinforces my initial impressions: this is a series made of marvellous bits (the shootout in the factory was a blast, literally, the performances are terrific, the production looks great, some of the dialogue is prerty strong) but it's taken three whole episodes to get to what should have been the end of episode 1. I'm hoping the pace picks up, but if not, it's fun to hang around in the programme waiting.

These episodes have been pretty short though.  We're barely an hour and a half into programming.  Its not like these have been hour+ engagements.

ETA:  And I should say, I fully acknowledge its for kids.  But a show like Andor a movie like Rogue One acknowledge that they are for the kids who grew up loving the movies and are now adults with the heart of a kid.

Edited by Rhom
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It's closer to two hours, even allowing for credits and recaps. And that's a movie's worth of screen time. TV is slower, but that's a lot of time to get from 'I shot these cops' to 'I am now on the run', even adding the flashbacks.

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Really have no issue with the pacing there. At all. We know where the guy ends up in Rogue One, and while the show will depict him doing some things for the Rebellion, there is no indication he is Mr. Super Hero who is going to have much of an impact on the grander scale of things.

And he has already met Rebel Guy who is going to connect him to whoever he works for.

This kind of thing, the way the rebel sympathizers communicate and how distant it is ... really shows how large this galaxy actually is. The same thing with not the actually armed forces or law enforcement of the Empire reacting to this thing, but the security forces of a private enterprise which operates under Imperial oversight/control.

And, of course, we also know that this show basically has two protagonists - Cassian Andor on the one hand, and Mon Mothma on the other. And her story should show Imperial society at the very top.

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2 hours ago, KalVsWade said:

I think the problem is that I stopped at ep 2. Ep 3 apparently picks up the pace some, which is also likely why they released the first three as they did.

But the first two eps are slooooow

But also not that long, especially the second. The third is the longest so far.

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Diego Luna confirmed in an interview what I had suspected. Part of the reason why his background is that he's from a culture with its own language is to explain his accent, since no one else in the SW universe speaks with that accent. I'm curious if we'll meet his sister and if she has the same accent. Though if she left Kenari at the age we see her, her accent could be less apparent or she might have one of the common accents.

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18 hours ago, mormont said:

Folks, I hate to say it. But this is Star Wars. It has space wizards who're also samurai because that's twice as cool as regular space wizards. It's all for kids. Some of us kids are a bit older, is all.

The Star Wars universe can be whatever it wants to be really, most of the material is aimed at kids but the KOTOR games, for example, are not, and Andor doesn't look to be either.

There's definitely room in the SW universe for both kid's stuff and more interesting, highly political material.

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1 hour ago, Darryk said:

The Star Wars universe can be whatever it wants to be really, most of the material is aimed at kids but the KOTOR games, for example, are not, and Andor doesn't look to be either.

There's definitely room in the SW universe for both kid's stuff and more interesting, highly political material.

I don't think that's really true, and I think Andor may actually show us why. If you start to get into 'interesting, highly political' material you start running into the issue of invalidating all the other shows existence. For instance, you can't show a super repressive, competent empire in one place and show Obi-Wan in the same universe where he can just walk into the most tightly controlled place in the galaxy with a trench coat as a disguise. You can't have rebels as terrorists without exploring why everyone went along with the rebellion and the new republic later. 

You also run the risk of alienating the star wars fanbase - which are still, largely, kids - with something too serious, too dark, and too grey. Star Wars at its core is about very black and white morality and values, and while the audience has matured the property has largely not. Making the Empire look too sympathetic, or making Rebels look too evil, is going to be off-brand and possibly a problem. It's as tonally incorrect as having something in Game of Thrones have heroic knights regularly saving the day and being all honorable and noble and not being exploited; it might be an interesting story, but it isn't right.

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Thing about all these different shows in the SW universe is you don’t actually have to watch them all. I never watched Clone Wars and don’t care about it, but so far really like Andor. Are kids really gonna watch this? It’s mostly a thriller that is barely related to Star Wars most of the time. You can’t alienate fan bases who don’t watch something 

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3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Thing about all these different shows in the SW universe is you don’t actually have to watch them all. I never watched Clone Wars and don’t care about it, but so far really like Andor. Are kids really gonna watch this? It’s mostly a thriller that is barely related to Star Wars most of the time. You can’t alienate fan bases who don’t watch something 

For Disney you absolutely can, and you're missing the point of what Disney is selling. Disney is selling the Star Wars brand. If the people who buy Disney for Star Wars aren't getting what they want from it, they'll stop buying Disney.

If people want something like Breaking Bad or Sopranos or the Wire there are a lot of non-Disney options out there, including things on Hulu (owned by Disney). If you want Star Wars, though, you go to Disney and you get that reliable thing. Disney is about selling a specific brand and being true to that brand; it is not about diversifying the kinds of stories and viewpoints in a brand. You don't see a darker, grittier Mickey Mouse out there, and you won't see a raunchy sex comedy in Marvel either. 

Now, I think that this might be okay for Star Wars and Andor is an experiment here to expand it a bit more - but it's entirely possible that this experiment will fail. That it will not appeal to the kids enough or get enough actual eyeballs watching, or that the people who loved Obi-Wan and Book of Boba Fett absolutely hate a show with no space wizards, armored ninjas riding Rancors or babies deflecting fire and eating the babies of other species. It's also possible that it will add even more people into the mix, in which case cool! But my point is that Disney is not just going to look at critical acclaim or people watching it to measure its success. 

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Well they might be ok with critical acclaim, there is value in that on its own. It might also be a way to get adults to purchase Disney+ and bring in a different audience. If all you cater to is one demographic then you are really limiting yourself. You might come for Andor and stay for some other drama you spot on there.

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7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Well they might be ok with critical acclaim, there is value in that on its own. It might also be a way to get adults to purchase Disney+ and bring in a different audience. If all you cater to is one demographic then you are really limiting yourself. You might come for Andor and stay for some other drama you spot on there.

This in marketing is called 'diluting your brand' and is in general Not a Good Thing. If all Disney was was Star Wars then I'd agree with you, but they already have several brands for that. Disney itself is not the thing they're targeting serious adults with (that is, again, Hulu) - Disney is already the brand of youth, young adults, and largely fun experiences. Hulu is more serious, prestige-level things, serialized dramas, etc. 

And to be clear here - this isn't me making this shit up, this is marketing 101 stuff. And Disney is an absolute master at marketing and branding - one of the best in the world. They are willing to try things and expand brands to a point, but only to a point - because the risk is that someone who thinks 'Star Wars' watches something that isn't what they were expecting, and then gets turned off that brand entirely. 

An example of this might be someone who watches Marvel movies seeing Thor Love and Thunder and thinking what a weird movie this was - and then not trusting watching another Marvel movie. Or someone who loves Marvel getting upset because She-Hulk has women in it. 

Edited by KalVsWade
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25 minutes ago, KalVsWade said:

It's as tonally incorrect as having something in Game of Thrones have heroic knights regularly saving the day and being all honorable and noble and not being exploited; it might be an interesting story, but it isn't right.

 

Quote

Heartsick, Dunk wheeled Thunder and raced back and forth before the tiers of pale cold men. Despair made him shout. "ARE THERE NO TRUE KNIGHTS AMONG YOU?"

Only silence answered.

Across the field, Prince Aerion laughed. "The dragon is not mocked", he called out.

Then came a voice. `'I will take Ser Duncan's side."

They're developing Dunk & Egg at HBO.

I really think that Andor as a single show is unlikely to do any of that. People who don't like it won't watch it and won't think it means anything to what Star Wars is, just as people who think Clone Wars or The Book of Boba Fett ignore them and focus on the stuff they like. Star Wars as a big tent seems like exactly the right approach.

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