US Politics: What will the InJustice League do next?

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Darzin said:

Seems I started a bit of a firestorm, I just want to say I wasn't intending to equate China with the US or say both sides are the same.

To be clear, I don't have any problem with your students pitying the US for overturning Roe nor anything you said.  They sound like conscientious and engaged students, which I'd take in any country.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Darzin said:

I suppose it is, but in this case it's the unvarnished truth.  Usually my students come at me with something insane they heard on state news or just random weird ideas picked up about the west. But in this case it's true the CCP will absolutely protect their right to choose more than the US Supreme court will. That's a fact, not all the other bad stuff China has done and not all the other bad stuff America has done and if we tally that score America will come ahead by a mile. But we weren't tallying everything we were tallying one thing and it really failed. They came to me honestly curious about how such a thing could happen in a modern developed country. I explained as best I could how it came to pass, the pro life movement, the supreme court, it's role ect. If we believe democracy is a moral good all I can say is it lost three potential converts as they concluded (somewhat correctly though with a big fucking asterisk) that it was incapable of protecting their rights. 

No one is debating that though. It was their next statement that's very problematic, having the confidence their rights won't be taken away despite living in a country were the government will just disappear you if you step out of line, and by your admission you can't really explain to them why that is or discuss it at all. I dated someone from China who immigrated to the US when she was 12 iirc and said it was the biggest shock of her life to learn China's real history, not the propaganda she was raised with.

[Conflicting Thought]

15 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

No one is debating that though. It was their next statement that's very problematic, having the confidence their rights won't be taken away despite living in a country were the government will just disappear you if you step out of line, and by your admission you can't really explain to them why that is or discuss it at all. I dated someone from China who immigrated to the US when she was 12 iirc and said it was the biggest shock of her life to learn China's real history, not the propaganda she was raised with.

Isnt that true of people in the USA also? Maybe no the same level but i have known people from the US that didnt know about their many interventions on other countries, like operation condor. Or didnt know about the time they destroyed and bombarded black neighborhoods pr the tuskegee study. China is not special in keeping their citicens ignorant of their history.

[Kalbear]

I also think it's fairly amusing that Chinese students have the right to criticize US government but not their own. So...yay?

[straits]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Which again is terrible and something I wouldn’t defend, but the point remains you can cite as much wrong with the US as you want and I can cite stuff from China, all of which is worse, and that’s before we touch on their likelihood of invading Taiwan which will make the global consequences from Russia invading Ukraine look like a mild annoyance.

Good point. Invading sovereign countries is bad. I wonder who the clear victor in that category is. 

[Maithanet]

9 minutes ago, straits said:

Good point. Invading sovereign countries is bad. I wonder who the clear victor in that category is. 

If we're just talking about the past 50 years, China has engaged in far less military adventurism than the USA.  It is not even close.  China has been involved in some skirmishes (sometimes more than skirmishes) with countries along its border, but it doesn't fight wars across the globe the way the US does. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

England

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

If we're just talking about the past 50 years, China has engaged in far less military adventurism than the USA.  It is not even close.  China has been involved in some skirmishes (sometimes more than skirmishes) with countries along its border, but it doesn't fight wars across the globe the way the US does. 

It wasn’t really in the position to do that nor did it have a good reason, so I’m not sure why there would be any sort of comparison.

[ThinkerX]

Meanwhile a certain SC Justice fled from a restaurant. I see this as an indicator of more turmoil to come. Maybe if the pressure increases enough, a couple of the conservative SC justices will decide the personal cost for implementing their agenda is too high? But that brings the swinging pendulum into play...

 

Brett Kavanaugh was forced out of a DC restaurant by protesters amid anger at SCOTUS overturning Roe v Wade (msn.com)

 

• Protestors chased Brett Kavanaugh out of a Washington DC restaurant. 
• The restaurant said "unruly" protestors "harassed" Kavanaugh and other patrons. 
• Protestors have demonstrated outside the homes of justices after the Roe v. Wade ruling. 

Protestors held a demonstration outside a Washington D.C. restaurant after getting word that Brett Kavanaugh was inside, forcing the Supreme Court justice to depart from a back door, Politico reported.

Kavanaugh, who was among the justices who supported the recent Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe v. Wade, was having dinner Wednesday night Morton's, a steak house.

The restaurant confirmed to Politico that Kavanaugh and the protesters were there.

According to a tweet from Shutdown DC, which coordinates protests against the justices, they were demanding that the restaurant expel Kavanaugh.

At that point he left by a back door with his security detail. A source told Politico that Kavanaugh didn't see or hear the protests, but left before dessert. 

 

[straits]

16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It wasn’t really in the position to do that nor did it have a good reason, so I’m not sure why there would be any sort of comparison.

What's a good reason?

[TormundsWoman]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

No one is debating that though. It was their next statement that's very problematic, having the confidence their rights won't be taken away despite living in a country were the government will just disappear you if you step out of line

I think the real “firestorm” actually started with “China doesn’t get to lecture us” on human rights violations.

And resulted in the debate that no comparison can be made between the two countries on this, which is ridiculous because the simple fact we are ranked below Germany but above China means some non-for-profit already compares our liberties and human rights violations against China’s to begin with, so those students can and should most definitely do the same should they wish to. Whether they get to the same conclusion as you (or the said non-for-profits) or not, that is a different matter.

I’m sure you know that you typed that specific little gem phrase yourself while sitting on a soapbox :p, and then Larry just got mad at you and dropped an F bomb because you’re not that special Tywin et al. !!!
After that, multiple posters weighed in if China or her people (ignorant or aware) should be criticizing or not our own human rights violations (hypocritically or not). Basically: a shitstorm. I’m just recapping.

You may have had something else in mind, but that was not clear at all 4 pages ago to be honest.

26 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

England

Ha, I’m sure John Oliver would agree! Maybe.

[Padraig]

1 hour ago, TormundsWoman said:

I think the real “firestorm” actually started with “China doesn’t get to lecture us” on human rights violations.

Just to agree on this.  I was quite surprised when I read the "China doesn't get to lecture us" comment in reference to a few students in China.  Maybe the comment was misinterpreted but a lot of people seemed to interpret it in the same way I did.

[DMC]

Shocking news!  Musk is trying to bail on the Twitter deal:

Quote

Elon Musk will try to bail on his $44 billion agreement to buy Twitter, claiming that the social media company hasn't met its contractual obligations, according to a statement filed with the U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission.

Why it matters: This could set up a massive legal fight between Musk and Twitter, with a Delaware court as the deal's ultimate arbiter.

Behind the scenes: Musk largely waived due diligence before agreeing to buy Twitter at a price that seemed high even before the broad decline in tech stocks. [...]

What to know: Twitter will sue to enforce the deal, under a merger term called "specific performance" that theoretically could result in a Delaware judge forcing Musk to buy the company. It also could seek damages.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Cool beans if citizens are chasing right wing Scotus members from restaurants and other public establishments.

They deserve NO QUARTER, by their own opinions they do not believe in the right to privacy. We need to hold them to their prescriptions then (for the rest of their miserable lives).

[JGP]

1 hour ago, ThinkerX said:

At that point he left by a back door with his security detail. A source told Politico that Kavanaugh didn't see or hear the protests, but left before dessert. 

You just know that goof was pounding his [I like] BEER on his way out the door.

[DireWolfSpirit]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

Shocking news!  Musk is trying to bail on the Twitter deal:

How sweet it is. Is it okay for me to enjoy the knife fight and hope for both sides to lose?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Isnt that true of people in the USA also? Maybe no the same level but i have known people from the US that didnt know about their many interventions on other countries, like operation condor. Or didnt know about the time they destroyed and bombarded black neighborhoods pr the tuskegee study. China is not special in keeping their citicens ignorant of their history.

I would say it's a bit more complicated than that. There are certainly those who want to omit or white wash the bad parts of our history, no doubt, but there isn't anything close to the level of banning critical information like you see in authoritarian states.

2 hours ago, straits said:

Good point. Invading sovereign countries is bad. I wonder who the clear victor in that category is. 

As said before, we're still chasing down the Brits and we're like DK Metcalf trying to prevent a pick six.

33 minutes ago, Padraig said:

Just to agree on this.  I was quite surprised when I read the "China doesn't get to lecture us" comment in reference to a few students in China.  Maybe the comment was misinterpreted but a lot of people seemed to interpret it in the same way I did.

I could have phrased it better. I was trying to say through the context of the Chinese government being morally superior. 

[JGP]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I could have phrased it better. I was trying to say through the context of the Chinese government being morally superior. 

The Chinese Gov levies atrocities to point out hypocritical judgment though, and/or deflect. They've brought up Canada's genocide of Indigenous Peoples when they've felt judged by our Gov for instance, and while it may stick in the craw they're not wrong. The US is also guilty of this, as is the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc. The list is long.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

28 minutes ago, JGP said:

The Chinese Gov levies atrocities to point out hypocritical judgment though, and/or deflect. They've brought up Canada's genocide of Indigenous Peoples when they've felt judged by our Gov for instance, and while it may stick in the craw they're not wrong. The US is also guilty of this, as is the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc. The list is long.

 

They're factually correct to point out that other countries have blood on their hands too, but they're wrong to use that as a justification to continue atrocities occurring right now while demanding no one question them.

[JGP]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

They're factually correct to point out that other countries have blood on their hands too, but they're wrong to use that as a justification to continue atrocities occurring right now while demanding no one question them.

Of course they are, but definitely puts a chill on the discourse, doesn't it.