Why aren’t people growing weirwoods?

[LynnS]

9 hours ago, Evolett said:

Bloodraven himself is an ongoing sacrifice to the tree. He's almost used up now, gaunt and dry but he was "full of blood" once.

Yes, I think this is true.   The weirnet is parasitic. Bloodraven isn't the only food source that Bran sees impaled by tree roots. The COTF sacrifice their own as well.

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Saprophytes, usually fungi, obtain nutrients directly from dead and decaying matter and they operate by means of a mycelium that extends way beyond the point of origin. 

I do think the weirnet functions as an analogue of saprophytes in it's growth and it's "fruit".  Weirwood nuts are likely mushrooms or some fungal offshoot of the tree.

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I wonder if the Others raising the dead was originally a tactic meant to prevent weirwoods from obtaining nourishment? .

I have wondered the same about the killing cold.  Come spring, that's a lot of decaying matter since the cold is indiscriminate. Blood enables magic in this story,  but I don't think it's the only source of nutrient.

Raising the dead and using them against your enemy is an effective means for overwhelming your opponent.  Wights can be moved about to important locations ,to be used as a food source, at some future time. 

How the Others came into existence and how the seasons became skewed is a result of some magical, preternatural event.  The Others and the unbalanced seasons are connected and one is the unintended consequence of the other.  The Others are a 'form' of life, albeit one that is held together by a 'spell', as GRRM describes it.  Sam breaks the spell with obsidian.

[James West]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:47 AM, Canon Claude said:

We are told time and time again that the wood from a weirwood tree is considered very useful and valuable. They are also very expensive as a result due to their rarity.

But why are they so rare? Trees release seeds all the time. Why wouldn’t an enterprising person collect a few seeds, grow a couple of weirwoods on their property, and build a forest from there which they harvest over the years? It would be time consuming, sure, but long term it would be super profitable and keep your family in good finances for a long time.

Very good question.  The tree wood is indeed commercially valuable but the price to bring a tree to life is too high.  The seedling will require the sacrifice of an innocent.  The only innocent is a newborn baby.  Each Weirwood was started by the sacrifice of a newborn baby. 

A tree that grows in the absence of light is not possible.  No photosynthesis.  The weirwoods feed off of human blood. 

[Vaegon the dragonless]

8 hours ago, James West said:

Very good question.  The tree wood is indeed commercially valuable but the price to bring a tree to life is too high.  The seedling will require the sacrifice of an innocent.  The only innocent is a newborn baby.  Each Weirwood was started by the sacrifice of a newborn baby. 

A tree that grows in the absence of light is not possible.  No photosynthesis.  The weirwoods feed off of human blood. 

Where do you get that from ? Because I cant recall the Weirwoods being that different from other trees in that aspect ?

And to answer to the OP my guess would be that weirwood are npt easy to grow and take far too much time to do it, so it is not really a substainable product exept on multi-generational term. But people have tried, if I recall properly the Arryn wanted to plant a weirwood in the Eyries but it never took root and they settle on a weirwood throne.

[Moiraine Sedai]

The Septons don’t do blood sacrifices. They would outlaw blood sacrifice in the South.  The North is a different beast. They sacrificed as long as the Targaryens and the Andals didn’t find out. The North kept their trees thriving through the episodic human sacrifices. 
 

 

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

4 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

Where do you get that from ? Because I cant recall the Weirwoods being that different from other trees in that aspect ?

 My limited understanding of these things tells me that unless they use a magical red variant of chlorophyll then photosynthesis would be out for wierwoods. (of course there's no reason why there couldn't be a magical red chlorophyll, but this story's a little darker than that, isn't it?)

My only question would be where are the 'young' wierwoods we see in the story (The Whispers and Nightfort come to my mind) getting their nourishment if the sun doesn't provide anything to them?  IIRC they're both growing inside of broken buildings so light would be significantly reduced, but not out all together.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

14 hours ago, James West said:

The seedling will require the sacrifice of an innocent.  The only innocent is a newborn baby.  Each Weirwood was started by the sacrifice of a newborn baby. 

Maybe. What does the tree care for innocence though? I don't see why that would be a necessary ingredient. Is this more 'north bad' stuff or have you seen something that supports this?

[Evolett]

16 hours ago, James West said:

The seedling will require the sacrifice of an innocent.  The only innocent is a newborn baby.  Each Weirwood was started by the sacrifice of a newborn baby. 

Interesting. Why do you think newborn innocents are required as a sacrifice to initiate growth? And speaking of newborn babies, do you think Craster’s baby boys end up as a sacrifice to the weirwood?

[Vaegon the dragonless]

3 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

 My limited understanding of these things tells me that unless they use a magical red variant of chlorophyll then photosynthesis would be out for wierwoods. (of course there's no reason why there couldn't be a magical red chlorophyll, but this story's a little darker than that, isn't it?)

My only question would be where are the 'young' wierwoods we see in the story (The Whispers and Nightfort come to my mind) getting their nourishment if the sun doesn't provide anything to them?  IIRC they're both growing inside of broken buildings so light would be significantly reduced, but not out all together.

I find the magical chlorophyll explanation sufficient, yes the story is dark but not everything has to be. And the Weirwoods long outdate men in Westeros, and the slow breeding and long lifed children are not really the sacrificing your own type to me.

[Vaegon the dragonless]

5 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The Septons don’t do blood sacrifices. They would outlaw blood sacrifice in the South.  The North is a different beast. They sacrificed as long as the Targaryens and the Andals didn’t find out. The North kept their trees thriving through the episodic human sacrifices. 
 

 

Do you have evidence of that and what would it be ? Because outside the fact that some (possibly anecdotal) human sacrifice happened a very, very long time ago, they're is no evidence of old gods worshipper practicing sacrifices. I keep seing people refers to the old gods needing blood when they're is no evidence of it and as counter evidence I would submit that we do not have a single instance of human sacrifice for the old gods mentionned by anyone, they're is no reason that they would require it. Opposed to Rh'llor and the Drowned God where we have more than one instance of sacrifice, which indicates to use that it is a practice for those religion.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

17 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

I find the magical chlorophyll explanation sufficient, yes the story is dark but not everything has to be. And the Weirwoods long outdate men in Westeros, and the slow breeding and long lifed children are not really the sacrificing your own type to me.

I wonder if all that's being reported as sacrifice really is that though. Given what we've seen of wargs and greenseers and the like is it too much of a stretch to suggest that some of these 'sacrifices' we've seen reported are in fact means of merging the spirit with the tree? What did Bran witness at the Winterfell heart tree when he was having his historical visions? Was that a sacrifice/ murder or was the 'victim' complicit in what was happening because he knew what was going on? We aren't given much to go on, but I think that it's safe to say that regardless of what may in fact be happening it sure looks bad to the outsider, but perhaps it looks worse than it is. Even the grizzly tales of the Wolf's Den might have dimensions to them that we haven't been given enough information to fully appreciate.

[Springwatch]

I suspect the past was much worse than the present, but is little remembered. Bran saw a victim's throat ritually cut before the weirwood, but in current times, all that remains of the custom is Ned giving the blood on his sword to the pool before the weirwood. There's a hint to the reader too in Bran's first chapter: the snow around the ironwood stump 'eagerly' drinking Gared's blood. Life = blood = power.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Parents told their kids not to trust the weirwood.  The ancients knew something bad about the trees and passed it down to their children to distrust the trees.  The faces in the weirwoods were there to serve the children of the forest and their barbaric beliefs. 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:47 AM, Canon Claude said:

We are told time and time again that the wood from a weirwood tree is considered very useful and valuable. They are also very expensive as a result due to their rarity.

But why are they so rare? Trees release seeds all the time. Why wouldn’t an enterprising person collect a few seeds, grow a couple of weirwoods on their property, and build a forest from there which they harvest over the years? It would be time consuming, sure, but long term it would be super profitable and keep your family in good finances for a long time.

Weirwoods are connected to the worship of the old gods of the First Men . South of the neck the Seven has sway .

[Victor Newman]

You would think boat hulls would be made of the stuff.  Rot resistance make the wood valuable.  But as many have already said, the price to grow the trees require the offerings of human blood.  It's too much. 

[Aldarion]

On 7/1/2022 at 6:46 PM, LynnS said:

I think it's possible that the wierwood net is one organism that propagates through its root system without the need for flowers, fruit, nuts or seeds.  Someone advanced the theory that the weirnet is a pando organism.  

That is actually the theory I prefer. Also, wasn't there mention of some sort of weirwood network under the Wall, or I am misremembering things?

[Vaegon the dragonless]

4 hours ago, Victor Newman said:

You would think boat hulls would be made of the stuff.  Rot resistance make the wood valuable.  But as many have already said, the price to grow the trees require the offerings of human blood.  It's too much. 

But does it really need a blood sacrifice ? They seem to grow at random in the Wolfswood and the haunted forrest and nothing indicates that sacrifice of any sort is needed to grow the Weirwood.

[Canon Claude]

3 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

But does it really need a blood sacrifice ? They seem to grow at random in the Wolfswood and the haunted forrest and nothing indicates that sacrifice of any sort is needed to grow the Weirwood.

Yeah, I don’t know where that “weirwoods only grow because of blood sacrifice” rule comes from. 

[Darth Sidious]

53 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

Yeah, I don’t know where that “weirwoods only grow because of blood sacrifice” rule comes from. 

Bran’s vision of the past showed his ancestors murdering captives and pouring the blood of the victim to feed the Winterfell weirwood. The Watch found a weirwood filled with bones during their expedition in the north. 

[Vaegon the dragonless]

1 hour ago, Darth Sidious said:

Bran’s vision of the past showed his ancestors murdering captives and pouring the blood of the victim to feed the Winterfell weirwood. The Watch found a weirwood filled with bones during their expedition in the north. 

That would be extremely anecdotal, the vision is not clear, it could be a sacrifice or could be a execution. But neither would indicate that it is what makes the weirwood grow, even if it is a sacrifice doing it infront a heart-tree (not the same as a weirwood) would be the same as doing it infront a statue or on a altar. The bones could very well be a sepulture, after all we normally put graveyard next and around church's to be closer to "God", could very well be that once burned the family and friends of the dead wanted them to be close to they're Gods and put them in the Weirwood since they are associated with the old Gods.

It seems that people are bent on the idea that the old gods are bad (wich they could be) and that they must want blood sacrifice, and by extension everything associated with that faith requires some dark and bloody when their is little to go on.

[Mourning Star]

2 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

That would be extremely anecdotal, the vision is not clear, it could be a sacrifice or could be a execution. But neither would indicate that it is what makes the weirwood grow, even if it is a sacrifice doing it infront a heart-tree (not the same as a weirwood) would be the same as doing it infront a statue or on a altar. The bones could very well be a sepulture, after all we normally put graveyard next and around church's to be closer to "God", could very well be that once burned the family and friends of the dead wanted them to be close to they're Gods and put them in the Weirwood since they are associated with the old Gods.

It seems that people are bent on the idea that the old gods are bad (wich they could be) and that they must want blood sacrifice, and by extension everything associated with that faith requires some dark and bloody when their is little to go on.

It is absolutely anecdotal, and people are certainly speculating, but it’s what we have to work with (well, that and lots of time, lots of time) and there is some reason to believe that first vision is the “birth” of the tree.

Honestly, I could still go either way.

The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.

"No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

The visions are pretty clearly going backwards in time. So assuming the last vision is from tree’s “birth” isn’t unreasonable, especially given that there is other possible support for this idea.

However, I would be remiss if I did not mention that the old woman with the sickle walks through “a drift of dark red leaves”, which presumably came from an already existing Weirwood. This detail does give me pause and cause to think the tree is still old enough to make piles of leaves at this point.