Gaston de Foix Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 35 minutes ago, mormont said: Pay attention to the wording of Sunak's letter. He's saying he didn't want to give us even the paltry amount of help with the cost of living that we got. He doesn't think the country can afford it, or more accurately the country can't afford that and tax cuts too and he has made his choice. That's what to expect from Sunak as PM. Let them eat cake. My interpretation is that he was against the tax cuts rather than the cost of living help, no? His letter talks about the joint speech on the economy to be delivered next week. Tensions between fiscally minded chancellors, and big-spending PMs is an enduring institutional tension, and it seems like that is a major driver here. BUT, the one-two punch with Javid has clearly been coordinated, and is designed to inflict maximum damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 It's not that he was closely tied to Johnson. He wasn't, particularly, as far as I know. It's a mix of things, I suspect. The biggest things is probably that before the previous vote, nobody really knew how many Tory MPs were against Johnson: now they do, so the likes of Sunak and Javid have a better idea of the impact of their resignations. Also, there may be a bit of an unconscious prejudice at play here that sees male-on-male sexual harassment differently, as something harder to defend in public. And finally, the pattern here is repeating and Sunak and Javid may have genuinely finally seen that Johnson cannot change. He is a habitual liar, who will say whatever is most convenient to him at any given moment. I'm not suggesting either of them really care about that ethically but they probably realise that it's sinking the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 The quickest way for the Tories to restore their credibility would be choosing someone who has been nowhere near Boris Johnson's cabinets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Bim Afolami, the Tory Vice-Chair, has resigned, apparently not long after offering his support. Much smaller fry than the others so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Gaston de Foix said: My interpretation is that he was against the tax cuts rather than the cost of living help, no? No. Sunak is known to be a true believer in tax cuts, and was understood to have resisted the cost of living assistance strongly. Hence his references to having backed the PM publicly while disagreeing in private: since the public announcement involved spending money, that only makes sense if he was against it. He brings up the low-tax economy, says the path is a 'hard one', involves 'sacrifices' and that he believes the public are 'ready to hear that truth'. That's the language of a man who wants to cut spending. 'Prepared to work hard' is code for 'tax cuts'. He's making it as clear as he can that he wants to cut spending and cut taxes: presumably this is his pitch to Tory MPs. Javid's letter noticeably doesn't have such a pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Roger Gale MP telling it like it is: “This is man who has sought to trash the international agreement he willing signed and campaigned on. This is a man who has consistently failed to tell the truth. The reputation of my country and party does matter internationally. We cannot go on being led by someone who appears to be totally incapable of telling the truth.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 34 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I guess by American standards the Pincher thing seems like fairly small potatoes, although I suppose it does depend somewhat on how closely tied he was to Johnson. It does seem pretty quaint right? OTOH, the fact Johnson's no confidence vote underperformed May's months before she resigned was a pretty clear indication he was a dead man walking in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Jonathan Gullis has resigned as Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. Small fry but the numbers are adding up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 42 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I guess by American standards the Pincher thing seems like fairly small potatoes, although I suppose it does depend somewhat on how closely tied he was to Johnson. The final straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 I've got to admit, I'm struggling to see what's so special about this particular scandal. Johnson lied shamelessly and repeatedly to his own party, the press, and the country as a whole? Is it a day that ends with a Y? What's new about this? Everyone with even the slightest modicum of awareness has always known that this is who Johnson is. They knew it in the last election. They knew it in the last Tory leadership contest. They knew it when he was mayor, when he was an editor and a commentator. But all the politicians and commentators so thoroughly committed to standards and disgusted by these latest lies were happy to brush that aside when he was useful. Fucking spare me. And whoever replaces him will be mildly more dignified, and either the same or worse on policy. Westminster kabuki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, Hereward said: Roger Gale MP telling it like it is: “This is man who has sought to trash the international agreement he willing signed and campaigned on. This is a man who has consistently failed to tell the truth. The reputation of my country and party does matter internationally. We cannot go on being led by someone who appears to be totally incapable of telling the truth.” The main problem is not the lying. It’s having a PM who actually sees nothing wrong with financial corruption, sexual assault, perjury, or threats of violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted July 5, 2022 Author Share Posted July 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, Hereward said: Roger Gale MP telling it like it is: “This is man who has sought to trash the international agreement he willing signed and campaigned on. This is a man who has consistently failed to tell the truth. The reputation of my country and party does matter internationally. We cannot go on being led by someone who appears to be totally incapable of telling the truth.” If the Tory Party had known, who the man was they chose to lead them, and by extension that country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: If the Tory Party had known, who the man was they chose to lead them, and by extension that country. Not sure why you are pointing this out to me. I never voted for him or his government, I’m not a Conservative Party member, and I’m on record saying he’s the worst PM since Lord North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, SeanF said: The main problem is not the lying. It’s having a PM who actually sees nothing wrong with financial corruption, sexual assault, perjury, or threats of violence. Obviously, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 I'm pleased it's a sex scandal taking him down, it seems apt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: I'm pleased it's a sex scandal taking him down, it seems apt. I’m not. It would be better for him to be brought down by being a liar, a financial crook, and a traitor to his country. Sex scandals tend to get defended, and forgotten, very quickly. Edit: I’m not minimising the seriousness of the sexual assault case. But Johnson didn’t do this one, and what will bring him down is not the sex scandal but his usual mendacious response to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted July 5, 2022 Author Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: I'm pleased it's a sex scandal taking him down, it seems apt. Well, I mean sure, sex scandal was most certainly among the top picks of what would bring him down. But that it is not his sexual conduct that brings him down is a nice little twist. I did not see that one coming. 7 minutes ago, Hereward said: Not sure why you are pointing this out to me. I never voted for him or his government, I’m not a Conservative Party member, and I’m on record saying he’s the worst PM since Lord North. Thought you and our chaircat were more on the conservative end of the political spectrum. And yes, I know he was appaled by what had become of his conservative party, and was vocal in his opposition to PM Johnson, too. However, every Tory MP who backed him knew exactly who and what he was. Esp. MPs who served as ministers in his goverment should spare us the crocodile tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Thought you and our chaircat were more on the conservative end of the political spectrum. And yes, I know he was appaled by what had become of his conservative party, and was vocal in his opposition to PM Johnson, too. However, every Tory MP who backed him knew exactly who and what he was. Esp. MPs who served as ministers in his goverment should spare us the crocodile tears. Ah, collective guilt, gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Nicola Richards has gone as well. That's two senior ministers and four junior ones, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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