UK Politics: Johnson in a Pinch(er)

[Werthead]

Correction: Brandon Lewis has not resigned. He will remain proudly supporting this shitshow of a government.

[ljkeane]

8 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

Not true. He will no longer be party leader, but he’s still PM until either he resigns or the Queen dismisses him. David Allen Green did a good explanation here about what happens if he refuses to resign

https://davidallengreen.com/2022/07/what-if-boris-johnson-refuses-to-resign/

Yeah, technically being Prime Minister doesn’t actually have anything to do with the political party they’re part of. If he can no longer command a majority in Parliament though I don’t think it’d cause a constitutional crisis for the Queen to tell him to fuck off though.

[Werthead]

That takes us into uncharted waters, but yes, if the Tory Party elects another leader who commands a majority in Parliament and they go to form a government, then they presumably become Prime Minister and Johnson by default is fired.

Exactly how that would work in practice would be interesting to see play out. But we're not going to have two Prime Ministers and Johnson is not going to simply sit there as unelected PM for life with nobody agreeing to serve in his cabinet.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

one question which is probably a moot point now anyway.  Did Boris lie/mislead parliament with his statements on Pincher?  and not officially correct the record.   or where the statements not made in parliament itself?

 

 if somehow he survives this part he is already being investigated for misleading parliament by the standards committee.  and this could be more evidance and another way to get rid?

[Maithanet]

1 minute ago, Werthead said:

That takes us into uncharted waters, but yes, if the Tory Party elects another leader who commands a majority in Parliament and they go to form a government, then they presumably become Prime Minister and Johnson by default is fired.

Exactly how that would work in practice would be interesting to see play out. But we're not going to have two Prime Ministers and Johnson is not going to simply sit there as unelected PM for life with nobody agreeing to serve in his cabinet.

Maybe Johnson's goal is to end his tenure as interim prime minister?

[Werthead]

4 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

one question which is probably a moot point now anyway.  Did Boris lie/mislead parliament with his statements on Pincher?  and not officially correct the record.   or where the statements not made in parliament itself?

 if somehow he survives this part he is already being investigated for misleading parliament by the standards committee.  and this could be more evidance and another way to get rid?

Looking online, people are already raising the question of impeachment. Impeachment effectively does not exist under the British political system but technically is still on the books since the last time it was used (almost 200 years ago!), so they'd have to dust that down and see if they can make it apply.

Recalling him as an MP might be another route, but they'd have to prove he'd fiddled his expenses, get him arrested or get him suspended by Parliament for 10 days or more by the Committee on Standards. But there's an argument if the Prime Minister needs to be an MP. There are strong arguments he does, particularly because he needs to appear in the House of Commons to answer questions and it's unclear if a non-MP is an allowed to do that, but it'd wander into another grey area.

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

He appears to be telling everyone to get stuffed. He's gonna have to be dragged from there.

 

On pay per view?

[Werthead]

Johnson has fired Michael Gove. Pardon me whilst I weep.

[Rorshach]

5 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

On pay per view?

It will save the economy, it will!

[JGP]

1 minute ago, Werthead said:

Johnson has fired Michael Gove. Pardon me whilst I weep.

[Werthead]

The BBC reporting that if Boris tries to call an election with the rest of the party with a huge majority saying they don't want one, they don't believe the Queen would approve it.

Also, Johnson dragging the Queen into the mess does seem to be highly improbable.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Werthead said:

The BBC reporting that if Boris tries to call an election with the rest of the party with a huge majority saying they don't want one, they don't believe the Queen would approve it.

Also, Johnson dragging the Queen into the mess does seem to be highly improbable.

Because Boris Johnson has a sense of shame?

[LongRider]

11 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

On pay per view?

 

[Maltaran]

8 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Johnson has fired Michael Gove. Pardon me whilst I weep.

I would need an electron microscope to find the violin to be played here

[Werthead]

A Boris Johnson representative has said that Michael Gove was fired for being "a snake."

Things taking a distinctly Putinesque turn. One of those moments you are very glad that the police and military stay out of politics and hold their allegiance to the crown rather than the government. 

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Because Boris Johnson has a sense of shame?

Johnson likes to paint himself as a British patriot and a monarchist. Him putting the Queen in an impossible constitutional situation would show that to be a lie. That's destroying his legacy and reputation even more than is already the case.

There is a huge question about what would happen if the Queen asked Boris to resign, but for the reasons Mormont previously laid out, she will not do that unless the circumstances are extreme.

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, Werthead said:

A Boris Johnson representative has said that Michael Gove was fired for being "a snake."

Things taking a distinctly Putinesque turn. One of those moments you are very glad that the police and military stay out of politics and hold their allegiance to the crown rather than the government. 

Johnson likes to paint himself as a British patriot and a monarchist. Him putting the Queen in an impossible constitutional situation would show that to be a lie. That's destroying his legacy and reputation even more than is already the case.

There is a huge question about what would happen if the Queen asked Boris to resign, but for the reasons Mormont previously laid out, she will not do that unless the circumstances are extreme.

I think we've reached the point where Her Majesty has to be advised to dismiss Johnson as Prime Minister.

It's clear that we have a lunatic in No. 10. A man who whose grasp on reality is similar to that of Adolf Hitler in April 1945. The public hate him; his ministers hate him; his backbenchers hate him; the opposition MP's hate him.

He's a shitstain, who needs to be scrubbed down the S Bend

[mormont]

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I think we've reached the point where Her Majesty has to be advised to dismiss Johnson as Prime Minister.

It's clear that we have a lunatic in No. 10. A man who whose grasp on reality is similar to that of Adolf Hitler in April 1945. The public hate him; his ministers hate him; his backbenchers hate him; the opposition MP's hate him.

He's a shitstain, who needs to be scrubbed down the S Bend

I think most people here would understand that I am not a fan of Boris Johnson.

That has been my opinion since well before he was even Mayor of London and I've not been reticent about mentioning that I consider him to be an unprincipled selfish liar and a much more dangerous person than most realised.

However.

I am not in favour of the unelected monarch deciding to remove a sitting PM because his ministers are resigning and he is unpopular.

It's like when the Lords stop the government from doing something awful: I like the outcome but the mechanism is profoundly undemocratic.

[Sophelia]

Does anyone feel the resignation letters are getting shorter and shorter, with the last couple giving the impression they were written in unseemly haste as they rushed to catch up with the rapidly moving bandwagon?

 

 

[Werthead]

From the Mirror correspondent:

This was from quite a bit earlier on and other political pundits have shot down this idea.

The BBC running polls - presumably taken before today's events - that would show a catastrophic collapse in Conservative vote share if they did hold an election. In an election based on Johnson's leadership, it may be considerably worse, with a 5 million switch from the Tories to Labour and the LibDems.

Some suggestions on Twitter going into the "mental" category, like the entire Parliamentary Conservative Party resigning and forming a new party (The New Conservatives), leaving Johnson and his five supporters or whatever alone and without a mandate. That does seem a bit extreme and I think would trigger a general election anyway, so they might as well vote for no confidence in the government instead.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 minutes ago, mormont said:

I think most people here would understand that I am not a fan of Boris Johnson.

That has been my opinion since well before he was even Mayor of London and I've not been reticent about mentioning that I consider him to be an unprincipled selfish liar and a much more dangerous person than most realised.

However.

I am not in favour of the unelected monarch deciding to remove a sitting PM because his ministers are resigning and he is unpopular.

It's like when the Lords stop the government from doing something awful: I like the outcome but the mechanism is profoundly undemocratic.

If he refuses to resign after a vote of no confidence?  The PM cannot claim a direct electoral mandate as the US President can attempt to claim.  If he refuses to resign that refusal is itself an “undemocratic” action.