Formula 1 2023

[Tywin et al.]

A race at midnight? What's the world coming to?

Also Max is clearly a fan of Lethal Weapon 5.

[TheLastWolf]

Piastri deserved DOTD

And Merc need to get their shit straight. The boys play when the wolf is out huh

[Werthead]

That was a boring AF race.

Hamilton giving some pretty strong warnings that unless Mercedes and Ferrari can make a big step during the winter break, Red Bull will run off with next year as well, although Vettel in an interview said he thinks it's very hard to maintain that level, and noted that Red Bull had massive dominance in 2011 and 2013 but couldn't maintain it and 2012 was a very hard-won victory, and then they fell off the barrel in 2014.

[Wouter]

On 9/25/2023 at 7:44 PM, Werthead said:

That was a boring AF race.

Hamilton giving some pretty strong warnings that unless Mercedes and Ferrari can make a big step during the winter break, Red Bull will run off with next year as well, although Vettel in an interview said he thinks it's very hard to maintain that level, and noted that Red Bull had massive dominance in 2011 and 2013 but couldn't maintain it and 2012 was a very hard-won victory, and then they fell off the barrel in 2014.

IMO Red Bull was superior in 2012 as well, but they had more competition from McLaren (which also had a very good car that year), were confronted with an Alonso in great form (even though his Ferrari wasn't good at first) and like all teams they suffered from unpredictable behaviour of the tyres. Apparently Williams was the first to understand the tyres that year, leading to Maldonado's sensational win at Spain.

[Werthead]

2 hours ago, Wouter said:

IMO Red Bull was superior in 2012 as well, but they had more competition from McLaren (which also had a very good car that year), were confronted with an Alonso in great form (even though his Ferrari wasn't good at first) and like all teams they suffered from unpredictable behaviour of the tyres. Apparently Williams was the first to understand the tyres that year, leading to Maldonado's sensational win at Spain.

True, and Alonso would have won the championship if Ferrari had gotten their shit together earlier (and if he hadn't been smashed out of one race by Grosjean).  McLaren I think did waste some opportunities in 2012, especially given they had a very strong run in the back half of 2011 (where, after Red Bull switched focus to the next car Button suddenly went on a crazy run of form and outscored Vettel in the second half of the season, but it wasn't enough to challenge Vettel's massive points haul from earlier on).

[Yawron]

FIA has approved Andrettis application for the 11th team slot.

I hope the teams and Liberty can come to an agreement also. I want there to be 12 teams, to give more youngsters the opportunity. 

[Werthead]

4 hours ago, Yawron said:

FIA has approved Andrettis application for the 11th team slot.

I hope the teams and Liberty can come to an agreement also. I want there to be 12 teams, to give more youngsters the opportunity. 

Current scuttlebutt is that most of the teams want to veto the deal because having an 11th team would mean a 10% drop in their current share of the prize pot, and F1 management is inclined to agree with them, although they also see some PR gains from it going ahead.

The improvements to the sport, the spectacle and allowing 2 more drivers on the grid every year are, of course, in distant second place to the money.

[Werthead]

Outstanding sprint race, probably the best they've ever had, and an outstanding result for Piastri, although it's going to be annoying having that * next to his one F1 victory until he wins a "proper" race. Also Norris must be screaming in frustration at how he can be so good but it's his team-mates picking up wins.

Verstappen's third championship. He's been very impressive and incredibly consistent this year, keeping his head whilst Perez has repeatedly lost his (and after that crash, Red Bull must be seriously questioning if they can justify keeping him next year when Lawson will be out of a seat). The absolute dominance shown by the Red Bull, probably the single most ludicrously huge gap between the dominant car and the next (far moreso than the Mercedes, the early 2000s Ferrari, the 1988 McLaren or the previous Red Bull stint), was simultaneously extremely impressive and also made for possibly the single most boring season of F1...ever? Maybe. Apart from Singapore, which was unexpectedly excellent.

[williamjm]

56 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Outstanding sprint race, probably the best they've ever had, and an outstanding result for Piastri, although it's going to be annoying having that * next to his one F1 victory until he wins a "proper" race. Also Norris must be screaming in frustration at how he can be so good but it's his team-mates picking up wins.

I did wonder when Verstappen got up to second if he would be able to hunt down Piastri but he didn't make much impression on him. It was a great victory for Piastri. I think it's fair to say that starting on the soft tyres was not a good decision for anyone who tried it.

[Iskaral Pust]

Outside of P1, this season has had plenty of intrigue and variation as competitors jockeyed.  Ferrari, Aston Martin, Mercedes and Alonso have all had their periods of strength and promise, plus moments when the second driver shone brighter (Alonso excepted, of course).

Verstappen deserves his championship.  They won’t always be by such a distance. Perez puts the lie to claims of an unbeatable rocket ship but the other teams need to catch up on engineering — as Aston Martin has done by liberally copying the RB.

[Werthead]

That was a surprisingly solid race. Piastri was staying in touching distance of Verstappen. Verstappen may have been able to take off like a rocket as usual, but Red Bull were wary of the tyre issue, plus Verstappen not going flat-out apparently meant he weathered the physical hardship more than most (better than Ocon, who threw up in his helmet, and Sargent who just had to pit and give up).

Albon going to hospital afterwards, Russell saying he had severe worries about losing control of the car, Leclerc saying it was his toughest race ever, Piastri having to collapse on the floor between the race end and the podium, and Alonso saying that maybe two other races in his 20-year career were as tough all suggest this was right on, if not, beyond the safety limit for drivers' health. Several drivers kept opening their visors to let some air in and the teams had to keep telling them to stop that for safety. There's been suggestions for years that there should be maximum racing temperatures and this will only reinforce that.

[Lord of Oop North]

On 10/9/2023 at 1:38 PM, Werthead said:

 

Albon going to hospital afterwards, Russell saying he had severe worries about losing control of the car, Leclerc saying it was his toughest race ever, Piastri having to collapse on the floor between the race end and the podium, and Alonso saying that maybe two other races in his 20-year career were as tough all suggest this was right on, if not, beyond the safety limit for drivers' health. Several drivers kept opening their visors to let some air in and the teams had to keep telling them to stop that for safety. There's been suggestions for years that there should be maximum racing temperatures and this will only reinforce that.

Yes, just insane conditions. I read that the track temperature was never below 36 C, with cockpit temperature of up to 50 C. Ludicrous.

[TheLastWolf]

Bah, the Gulf has enough races. Bring back the Indian GP at Buddh ( fantastic circuit.) MotoGP debuted successful this year with half the exertion. Seb won all 3 held at the start of the last decade, recall his iconic knee bend. Shitty entertainment vs sport taxation and illiterate politics ended that.

Btw Kush Maini gets Mika Hakkinen as mentor in F2. Still looking for an Indian to redeem the debacle that was Narain Karthikeyan (not you Daruvala). Karun Chandhok commentary doesn't count. 

[Werthead]

Surprisingly very good race, after the pedestrian Sprint. Mercedes tried a superb bit of strategy but maybe a lap or two too late for it to work. Outstanding drive from Hamilton to make it work through. Not sure what happened with Verstappen's brakes but it looks like he was able to keep on top of it.

Good job from Norris even if he couldn't maintain his early form.

[TheLastWolf]

If only that pit wasn't slow, that exit a lap or two earlier, if only... to see Ham on the throne again. He deserved the DOTD, not Norris with yet another tantalizingly close to winning ugh. The sheer pace was exhilarating.

[Iskaral Pust]

The engineering catch-up is well underway.  RB were always going to defer development for the rest of this season to preserve their post-punishment wind tunnel time for next year’s car.  But it shows how much the other teams can close the gap.

RB have a difficult decision to make on Perez.  He has been so uncompetitive for more than half the season it seems.  Next year’s WCC should be a closer competition and even the WDC needs some second driver support to deny points to competitors and help hold track position.

[TheLastWolf]

Ham and Leclerc DQ Skid plate violation 

[Iskaral Pust]

30 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Ham and Leclerc DQ Skid plate violation 

Yeah, I spoke too soon about the engineering catch-up.  It has to be within regs.  

[TheLastWolf]

3 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

It has to be within regs

But but... it was a degradation condition, at best a minor infraction that too wouldn't have happened without the temperatures and the sprint's additional load. Meanwhile Red Bull catering...

Never mind my fanboy rants. I understand. 

[Werthead]

On 10/23/2023 at 2:00 AM, Iskaral Pust said:

The engineering catch-up is well underway.  RB were always going to defer development for the rest of this season to preserve their post-punishment wind tunnel time for next year’s car.  But it shows how much the other teams can close the gap.

RB have a difficult decision to make on Perez.  He has been so uncompetitive for more than half the season it seems.  Next year’s WCC should be a closer competition and even the WDC needs some second driver support to deny points to competitors and help hold track position.

Yeah, Red Bull are alarmed at the moment. Perez having a bad patch, fine, as long as he comes back afterwards. But his recent performances have been very poor, and his 2nd position in the Championship is in danger from Hamilton (this weekend helps him out a bit there). They need a good second driver to back up Max in a closer inter-team battle if that happens next year. Perez on 2021 and 2022 form was almost there, but the closer form in both years and Hamilton and Leclerc being on top form eased pressure on Perez. Perez in 2023 coming 3rd would be absurd given the utter untouchable superiority of the car for something like 75% of the season.

If he turns it around and gets a bunch of podiums in the last few races there isn't a problem. If this current form continues, it'll give Red Bull a massive headache. Ricciardo not being able to show his form due to his injury also limits their options, and they don't want to put Lawson straight into the Red Bull. There also isn't a massive appetite for promoting Tsunoda, despite his sharpening form this season.

I do get the impression Red Bull are moving back towards getting two A* drivers in the Red Bull and if that gives them a Webber/Vettel problem, so be it. But their two favoured choices are Norris and Leclerc (possibly Sainz, but taking him back might be an admission they were wrong to lose him so easily and Red Bull do have an ego problem), who are both in contract until the end of next year, so they can't nab them straight away. Pretty much anybody else bar Lawson will probably be aware of that and won't go into the car for just one season.