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Ukraine #17: Is There Life on HIMARS?


Werthead

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4 minutes ago, broken one said:

The offer is competetive. Now I think Poland can afford 500 units.

Germany: Why don't we add another zero? That's a nice corridor to the sea you got there. Wouldn't want anything to... Happen to it... On our way to reclaim the Kaiser's home lands.

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9 minutes ago, broken one said:

The offer is competetive. Now I think Poland can afford 500 units.

That's a great deal for an MLRS. I started my career on this beutiful platform back in the early- to mid-90s. My seniors had used it during Desert Storm, what a decisive tool. But in the corner of some motor pool I saw a really cool 1-pack platform -- turns out it was the HIMARS! Wheeled, not tracked, and I really wanted to crew it but it was just a prototype. And now, nearly three decades later, it's proving to be just as decisive (maybe more) as I had imagined.

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9 hours ago, Firebrand Jace said:

Germany: Why don't we add another zero? That's a nice corridor to the sea you got there. Wouldn't want anything to... Happen to it... On our way to reclaim the Kaiser's home lands.

I wouldn't mind the last part. It's my home land too. It's a pity that as things stand I wouldn't be able to visit it anymore.

Of course, I would assume that all the Russians living there for 70+ years would disagree.

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1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

Appears Amnesty International, specifically Donatella Rovera is pushing Russian propaganda.

 

 

I believe they lost all credibility with their one-sided Palestinia report.

It's a shame really. But a stern lesson that you can't trust any respected organization without checking what is going on inside right now. Russia and China really put some effort into undermining them all. It also means we shouldn't leave the field to them, like Trump did with WHO.

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Turkey has decided to step up its military assistant to Ukraine. As well as more Baryaktars, and more advanced ones (some suggestions they might start field-testing the high-speed stealth version there), they're going to build a factory in Ukraine to build them locally.

Turkey has also already delivered 50 BMC Kirpi MRAPS to Ukraine with another 150 due in the next few weeks. These are light infantry fighting vehicles with special mine and IED-resistant armour. They are meant to plug a hole in Ukraine's forces where they don't have enough IFVs to properly help sustain large-scale offensives.

I'm guessing Erdogan is getting less and less bothered about pissing Putin off every day.

Ukraine also hit the Antonivskyi Bridge whilst it was under repair, blowing up several vehicles which the Russians left burning on the bridge for several hours.

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Turkey has decided to step up its military assistant to Ukraine. As well as more Baryaktars, and more advanced ones (some suggestions they might start field-testing the high-speed stealth version there), they're going to build a factory in Ukraine to build them locally.

Turkey has also already delivered 50 BMC Kirpi MRAPS to Ukraine with another 150 due in the next few weeks. These are light infantry fighting vehicles with special mine and IED-resistant armour. They are meant to plug a hole in Ukraine's forces where they don't have enough IFVs to properly help sustain large-scale offensives.

I'm guessing Erdogan is getting less and less bothered about pissing Putin off every day.

Ukraine also hit the Antonivskyi Bridge whilst it was under repair, blowing up several vehicles which the Russians left burning on the bridge for several hours.

Or maybe Erdogan senses that the winds are changing in this conflict. 

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I (casually) kept up with this war from the beginning, and I can say that I'm shocked Russia wasn't able to overrun Ukraine within weeks. I was probably projecting too much onto Russian combat power, but all was revealed. And I'm still shocked. It's just unbelievable, but apparently true.

From what I understand, Ukraine stated it won't go beyond, into Russia. But what about Crimea and Donbas, and any other formerly-controlled areas? Are those areas within their objectives? With western support (including the HIMARS) it's hard to imagine a winning army -- especially one that was holding, and is now beating, the Russian Empire -- would stop their march so easily.

 

12 hours ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

Or maybe Erdogan senses that the winds are changing in this conflict. 

Matrim Fox Cauthon -- yes, yes he does. And of the people who previously didn't want to believe in Ukraine, probably do by now, too.

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Donbas is part of Ukrainian territory plain and simple. 
Crimea might have been on the table before Bucha. Now, that would be too tough to sell, so Ukraine will probably want it back, too. 

As far as I can tell, the official line is to restore the territorial integrity of Ukraine, the whole of Ukraine.

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Ukraine have always been very clear that Crimea and the Donbas are part of Ukraine. I don't actually recall them saying they would not attack or operate inside Russia, and indeed there has been the odd operation, but actually invading enforce, besides being beyond their capacity, would risk nuclear retaliation so it isn't very likely.

There is a long way to go though, they have largely defended amazingly well, but actually amounting an offence isn't something they have been able to demonstrate. They probably can't afford high risk offensives at the moment.

 

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18 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

As far as I can tell, the official line is to restore the territorial integrity of Ukraine, the whole of Ukraine.

12 minutes ago, Makk said:

Ukraine have always been very clear that Crimea and the Donbas are part of Ukraine. I don't actually recall them saying they would not attack or operate inside Russia, and indeed there has been the odd operation, but actually invading enforce, besides being beyond their capacity, would risk nuclear retaliation so it isn't very likely.

 

A Horse Named Stranger / Makk -- that's what I thought, but wasn't sure. Being a casual observer and sympathetic to both populations, how far Ukraine is willing to go in their continuing success is what captured my attention. All of Ukraine, but no more, seems like the most likely objective, but I wonder how bad the situation would get (especially having just watched some old guy's (i.e. Noam's) video on the two possible outcomes.

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Donbas is a vital part of/for Ukraine (Crimea less so) for economic reasons. That's on top of the very reasonable position, give up territory now, Putin/Russia will be back for the rest in a few years, once they'Ve rebuilt their army. Better to finish this war now, rather than post-pone it for a couple of years.

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Zelensky was in the news just this evening emphasizing they will not except anything short of the liberation and return of Crimea. Zelensky mentioned the invasion actually began in 2014 so it's pretty clear they aren't interested in negotiating away any territory to end the Soviet invasion.

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3 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Zelensky was in the news just this evening emphasizing they will not except anything short of the liberation and return of Crimea. Zelensky mentioned the invasion actually began in 2014 so it's pretty clear they aren't interested in negotiating away any territory to end the Soviet invasion.

DireWoldSpirit -- that's great info, I'm glad he's keeping that hardline approach. I'm curious to see how that policy eventually turns out, and whether or not such an event would break up the Russian Empire, however unlikely.

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1 hour ago, Wade1865 said:

DireWoldSpirit -- that's great info, I'm glad he's keeping that hardline approach. I'm curious to see how that policy eventually turns out, and whether or not such an event would break up the Russian Empire, however unlikely.

I’m curious how much of it is a bargaining position. If Russia agrees to withdraw from Donbas region and recognise Ukraine as independent, no more war - in exchange for Crimea and water access, I suspext Ukraine would be tempted. At the least, refusal to accwpt that offer might cool international support for Ukraine.

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