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Thor: Love and Thunder [SPOILERS]


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I need to re-watch Black Widow before I let Disney+ expire. That was the one I didn't care for. I remember liking the opening but by the end I was just bored. I may have just not been in the mood though. 

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16 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

So, and feel free to knock this down if I'm missing something (that movie was a lot); what was stopping Thor + Stormbreaker from opening a portal to Eternity before the climax of this film?  Like, any time post Infinity War. What would he wish for? A few possibilities come to mind...

I think he probably could have gotten there but didn't know that he could, they don't realise that Stormbreaker is the key until Jane sees Gor's notes.

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Yeah that had its moments but it could have been better. I think the whole BW situation was handled so poorly. The biggest problem is she should have gotten her film years ago. 

Bottom of the list for me, and I'm definitely in a minority on this, is Captain Marvel and Spider Man FFH

I purchased Captain Marvel on a 48 hour rental at the beginning of the pandemic. I watched it once and said, "Meh". I ran it again the next day and turned it off half way through. Boring. Unfunny. Visually interesting for about 10 minutes of its 2 hour runtime. And I hate to say this, but Brie Larson may not have been the right casting choice. This film is an example of a lot of very talented people getting together and just phoning it in. I don't even care about how Fury was able to find her at that Air Force bar or that the name "S.H.E.I.L.D." existed about a decade before it was supposed to.

I have many of the same criticisms of S-M:FFH.

The high school field trip stuff, which was about 1/3rd of the film, was boring as shit. Much of the cinematography looked like mid-tier television. The romance sub plots were only mildly interesting and, aside from one moment where I audibly laughed, none of the humor landed. I know I rolled my eyes more than once. I'm not even going to get into the problems with the plot. Whatever they paid Jake Gyllenhaal, they needed to double it because his performance saved that film IMO. I watched it once. 'Never bothered with it again. Same for Ant-Man although I liked that a little better. 

This came out the same years as Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse which I've rewatched multiple times and it's still great. 'Easily one of my top 5 superhero films.

That said, I have high hopes for S-M:NWH, which I haven't seen yet but heard some good things about from at least one fellow FFH hater. 

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30 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I purchased Captain Marvel on a 48 hour rental at the beginning of the pandemic. I watched it once and said, "Meh". I ran it again the next day and turned it off half way through. Boring. Unfunny. Visually interesting for about 10 minutes of its 2 hour runtime. And I hate to say this, but Brie Larson may not have been the right casting choice. This film is an example of a lot of very talented people getting together and just phoning it in. I don't even care about how Fury was able to find her at that Air Force bar or that the name "S.H.E.I.L.D." existed about a decade before it was supposed to.

To be fair, by that point they'd firmly retconned when the name SHIELD was developed. SHIELD was given its name in 1965 (30 years before Captain Marvel) and I believe had been floating around long before then. SHIELD very firmly exists in the 1970 flashback sequences in Endgame, for example.

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17 minutes ago, Werthead said:

SHIELD very firmly exists in the 1970 flashback sequences in Endgame, for example.

They even had Yvette Nicole Brown watching out for hippy beards! 

SHIELD existing for decades is also clear in Civil War - e.g. when Rodgers tells Peggy her founding it is half the reason he stayed.  Not to mention it's virtually essential to the plot of Winter Soldier.  And Ant-Man, for that matter.  Hell as early as Iron Man 2 it's established that Howard Stark was one of SHIELD's founders.

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50 minutes ago, Werthead said:

To be fair, by that point they'd firmly retconned when the name SHIELD was developed. SHIELD was given its name in 1965 (30 years before Captain Marvel) and I believe had been floating around long before then. SHIELD very firmly exists in the 1970 flashback sequences in Endgame, for example.

So they retconned one of the coolest reveals from the Iron Man move? For crying out loud why?

27 minutes ago, DMC said:

They even had Yvette Nicole Brown watching out for hippy beards! 

SHIELD existing for decades is also clear in Civil War - e.g. when Rodgers tells Peggy her founding it is half the reason he stayed.  Not to mention it's virtually essential to the plot of Winter Soldier.  And Ant-Man, for that matter.  Hell as early as Iron Man 2 it's established that Howard Stark was one of SHIELD's founders.

Was it called "SHIELD" then or were people using the name retroactively? You know what, I don't even care. 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?
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1 minute ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

So they retconned one of the coolest reveals from the Iron Man move? For crying out loud why?

Was it called shield then or were people using the name retroactively? You know what, I don't even care. 

I mean, I don't know, but yeah I don't really care either.  Why does it matter?

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Just now, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

So they retconned one of the coolest reveals from the Iron Man move? For crying out loud why?

Was it called shield then or were people using the name retroactively? You know what, I don't even care. 

It was called SHIELD in Endgame. I think Howard Stark might have even come up with the name in an Agent Carter episode (set in 1947) and Agents of SHIELD had SHIELD existing as early as 1955 (standard canonical arguments there)

I always felt the SHIELD gag in Iron Man was always a bit forced anyway, so no problem ditching that. Yeah, it's a retcon but it was a retcon they pulled in like the MCU's third movie well over a decade ago. That one, at least, is not on Captain Marvel.

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I actually kind of liked Eternals.  Mostly because it felt different from every other Marvel movie.  I also loved that Indian dude that was Kumail Nanjiani's manager.  I have no idea who he is but he was the best part of the entire film. 

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16 minutes ago, briantw said:

I actually kind of liked Eternals.  Mostly because it felt different from every other Marvel movie.  I also loved that Indian dude that was Kumail Nanjiani's manager.  I have no idea who he is but he was the best part of the entire film. 

I've kind of come around to liking it, or at least liking the potential of it. It's the only recent Marvel project where it genuinely felt like they packed way too much into it and it would have been better as a TV show so we could get to know the characters better individually.

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On 7/10/2022 at 5:20 PM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I just saw a review that speculated the reason for the tonal shifts in the film are down to Korg as narrator. The scenes where he's present are told from his POV. The scenes where he isn't are from our POV. Interesting theory. This film might be more clever than I thought. 

That surely means I must see the movie again, to check on whether this analysis is correct. And I'm sure I will miss these shifts in perspective for some scenes, which means I'll have to watch it a third time, to double check my work.

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8 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Yeah that had its moments but it could have been better. I think the whole BW situation was handled so poorly. The biggest problem is she should have gotten her film years ago. 

Bottom of the list for me, and I'm definitely in a minority on this, is Captain Marvel and Spider Man FFH

I purchased Captain Marvel on a 48 hour rental at the beginning of the pandemic. I watched it once and said, "Meh". I ran it again the next day and turned it off half way through. Boring. Unfunny. Visually interesting for about 10 minutes of its 2 hour runtime. And I hate to say this, but Brie Larson may not have been the right casting choice. This film is an example of a lot of very talented people getting together and just phoning it in. I don't even care about how Fury was able to find her at that Air Force bar or that the name "S.H.E.I.L.D." existed about a decade before it was supposed to.

I have many of the same criticisms of S-M:FFH.

The high school field trip stuff, which was about 1/3rd of the film, was boring as shit. Much of the cinematography looked like mid-tier television. The romance sub plots were only mildly interesting and, aside from one moment where I audibly laughed, none of the humor landed. I know I rolled my eyes more than once. I'm not even going to get into the problems with the plot. Whatever they paid Jake Gyllenhaal, they needed to double it because his performance saved that film IMO. I watched it once. 'Never bothered with it again. Same for Ant-Man although I liked that a little better. 

This came out the same years as Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse which I've rewatched multiple times and it's still great. 'Easily one of my top 5 superhero films.

That said, I have high hopes for S-M:NWH, which I haven't seen yet but heard some good things about from at least one fellow FFH hater. 

Charlize Theron was always my pick for Captain Marvel, and seeing her now included in the MCU as a powered character kind of just makes me even more miffed that they couldn't make it happen. I thought Charlize might be one of those actors not at all interested in being part of the MCU, but clearly she's OK with it. Sigh, can I be teleported to another universe where she does get cast as Capt Marvel and one where ASOIAF is already finished

Not that I hate Larsen as Capt Marvel, she does a satisfactory job for me. But, what might have been...

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35 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Charlize Theron was always my pick for Captain Marvel, and seeing her now included in the MCU as a powered character kind of just makes me even more miffed that they couldn't make it happen. I thought Charlize might be one of those actors not at all interested in being part of the MCU, but clearly she's OK with it. Sigh, can I be teleported to another universe where she does get cast as Capt Marvel and one where ASOIAF is already finished

Not that I hate Larsen as Capt Marvel, she does a satisfactory job for me. But, what might have been...

I think Emily blunt was a name that was floated for Captain Marvel at one point.

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2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Charlize Theron was always my pick for Captain Marvel, and seeing her now included in the MCU as a powered character kind of just makes me even more miffed that they couldn't make it happen.

Brie isn't bad, I just can't tell if she's deliberately underselling it. 

Charlize could pull it off, but geaking out here a bit, she'd be a fantastic Quark if the DCEU could ever get its shit together.

re Captain Marvel, for me it was when I heard Elizabeth Debicki had been picked up for a Marvel project. Her natural height, her range, her sculptural beauty, before the GotG release that's who I'd figured best for Captain Marvel. 6'3" Don't scale her at all, Captain Marvel rescales the MCU as well. Alas.

To all human extents and purposes Carol is as god like as Superman over at DC. I don't know if the role should take itself too seriously, but Brie plays it with a kind of irony I don't know sells the part. Not a hundred percent. 

Leaning in to Carol breaking free from the military mold would be a way to go. Break with dogma, more with someone who really doesn't have to give a shit anymore but still does. And the shit she can do.    

   

Edited by JGP
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Saw this last night. I'm not a comics book fan and I like the MCU but felt pretty "done" with it after Endgame. I don't think I've seen anything since then? Nor any of the TV shows. It just started to feel like too much work to keep up with and, one of the reasons I don't like comic books, is the inconsistency and perpetual retconning really kills my investment in the stories.

But a friend wanted to see this one and I did like Ragnarok a surprising amount, and I love Jane Foster (obligatory as an astrophysicist myself and coincidentally people do say NP is my celebrity lookalike--in my wildest dreams, I wish!). I thought it was fun but definitely weirdly paced and a little too into its own silliness. Very typical of a Marvel series IMO to take something that worked well in one movie and then beat it to death in the next.

So I liked it, but I'm probably not "coming back" to the MCU so to speak.

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21 hours ago, JGP said:

Brie isn't bad, I just can't tell if she's deliberately underselling it. 

Charlize could pull it off, but geaking out here a bit, she'd be a fantastic Quark if the DCEU could ever get its shit together.

re Captain Marvel, for me it was when I heard Elizabeth Debicki had been picked up for a Marvel project. Her natural height, her range, her sculptural beauty, before the GotG release that's who I'd figured best for Captain Marvel. 6'3" Don't scale her at all, Captain Marvel rescales the MCU as well. Alas.

To all human extents and purposes Carol is as god like as Superman over at DC. I don't know if the role should take itself too seriously, but Brie plays it with a kind of irony I don't know sells the part. Not a hundred percent. 

Leaning in to Carol breaking free from the military mold would be a way to go. Break with dogma, more with someone who really doesn't have to give a shit anymore but still does. And the shit she can do.    

   

I think I recall seeing her name in fan casting lists back when Capt Marvel was first announced. Capt Marvel, so some people say, was Marvel's response to Supergirl. I don't know enough about the lore and histroy of comic book rivalry between DC and Marvel to authoritatively comment.

Critique of Thor and esp director Waititi

https://www.newsweek.com/taika-waititi-ruined-thor-cant-direct-marvel-movie-again-1724061

I feel like Michael Moran isn't so much criticising Love and Thunder, but more that the MCU has lost anchor characters, and has not found replacements for them. As I said in my comments about Love and Thunder. I am 100% fine with Thor movies being off the wall and a bit silly, while still doing its bit to move the MCU as a whole forward, but I would not want the whole MCU to be like that. Though of course he is still criticising Love and Thunder. But really what happens to the Thor solo movies is less important than the MCU having the anchor characters to replace Capt America Iron Man and Black Widow. Which kind of brings us back around to Captain Marvel, she could have been the replacement anchor to Cap, but she none of her showings so far have set her up for it. Her "I'm out there helping the rest of the Galaxy, Earth has the Avengers" position would be hard to transition back to an Earth-centric linchpin. And, well, the death of Chadwick Boseman has put the Wakanda arc back to square 1 in terms of Black Panther taking the lead. Would be cool for Photon to be the Earth-centric equivalent of Capt Marvel and develop into the core of the Avengers, So the Marvels movie might be fairly pivotal.

Anyway, I don't think Thor is going to be central to the MCU and outside of his own solo movies he will swing into GoTG and Avengers team ups when needed to provide some cosmic-powered and comic relief. So Moran's concerns taking aim at Thor and Waititi about the issues for wider MCU mostly miss the mark in my view, albeit those wider concerns are valid.

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From the above post is saw this article about the VFX artists refusing to work with Marvel because of their poor planning , last minute changes, the demand for ‘options’ and over work practices.

https://www.thegamer.com/marvel-mcu-vfx-artists-deadlines-crunch-stress/
 

This would really explain a lot really, why the effects for most of their shows is so patchy, but also why most of the shows, and now movies, don’t appear to have a plan and feel so inconsistent.

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2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

But really what happens to the Thor solo movies is less important than the MCU having the anchor characters to replace Capt America Iron Man and Black Widow. Which kind of brings us back around to Captain Marvel, she could have been the replacement anchor to Cap, but she none of her showings so far have set her up for it. Her "I'm out there helping the rest of the Galaxy, Earth has the Avengers" position would be hard to transition back to an Earth-centric linchpin.

 

I'm not sure about this concern. Obviously the anchors aren't gonna be 1 for 1 but Dr Strange has replaced Iron Man pretty directly, and though he's not stepping into anyone's shoes, Spidey seems like a fairly anchor character too. Obviously Black Panther was going to be one, and would likely have been a sorta replacement for Captain America since he's also a national icon with a strong moral code that he struggles with. Marvel would be more akin to Thor in this scenario, a link to the cosmic side. And of course Captain America has an actual replacement too, direct and in-story. 

The problem isn't that the characters aren't there, we just don't see where they're going and aren't sure if Marvel know, because we haven't had the next Avengers or any clear builds into it. I'm fine with that though.  
 

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