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Thor: Love and Thunder [SPOILERS]


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It’d be super weird if that’s why they were continuing the 90’s X-Men cartoon, so that they could shift that continuity in to the main MCU. You could possibly then focus on “new people from another universe” as a reason for people to be so hostile toward them more than their mutated genes.

I still haven’t seen a great answer to this question we’ve been asking for years though. You can’t start from Day One of mutated genes because Xavier needs to set up a school and what not. But I also wouldn’t buy anti-mutant-prejudice in the current MCU at all, because on top of all the other mental shit that’s happened I just don’t see anyone caring. Aliens, super serum, witches … why would you single out ‘mutated genes’ as a reason to be wary of someone? 

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41 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

It’d be super weird if that’s why they were continuing the 90’s X-Men cartoon, so that they could shift that continuity in to the main MCU. You could possibly then focus on “new people from another universe” as a reason for people to be so hostile toward them more than their mutated genes.

I still haven’t seen a great answer to this question we’ve been asking for years though. You can’t start from Day One of mutated genes because Xavier needs to set up a school and what not. But I also wouldn’t buy anti-mutant-prejudice in the current MCU at all, because on top of all the other mental shit that’s happened I just don’t see anyone caring. Aliens, super serum, witches … why would you single out ‘mutated genes’ as a reason to be wary of someone? 

Hasn’t the conflict between the world of anti mutant hatred in Xmen and all the super heroes around always been a bit weird in the comics anyway? I even thought it was a bit strange when I read the original Secret Wars 

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51 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

But I also wouldn’t buy anti-mutant-prejudice in the current MCU at all, because on top of all the other mental shit that’s happened I just don’t see anyone caring. Aliens, super serum, witches … why would you single out ‘mutated genes’ as a reason to be wary of someone? 

Bigotry does not tend to be based on logic.

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Hasn’t the conflict between the world of anti mutant hatred in Xmen and all the super heroes around always been a bit weird in the comics anyway? I even thought it was a bit strange when I read the original Secret Wars 

Yeah it never made any sense.  How the hell would the average person know which heroes are mutants and which are not to begin with?  

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Hasn’t the conflict between the world of anti mutant hatred in Xmen and all the super heroes around always been a bit weird in the comics anyway? I even thought it was a bit strange when I read the original Secret Wars 

I always felt that the X-Men and Batman universes didn't feel fully aligned with their larger settings (Marvel and DC), and the shared world stuff in them has always felt awkward. The mutant/anti-mutant hatred in X-Men felt illogical when the same hatred was not present against other heroes, and Batman (superpower: being rich) always stuck out like a sore thumb when working alongside people who could fly or were immortal.

It's why the previous movies that kept them all separate always felt like they were taking the right approach. Integrating Batman into the wider DC Universe has not worked well in the DC films.

The Inhuman arc in Agents of SHIELD and the entirety of Wild Cards always felt that they hit on a good idea though: only some people actually have superpowers, others have useless or rubbish powers or are deformed and look hideous, and "ordinary people" are sometimes affected and become "infected," thus explaining (somewhat) the hatred and bigotry.

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Bigotry against mutants makes perfect sense, in any universe. First of all, while there are other powered people, Dr. Doom or the Green Goblin don't declare war against mankind in the name of super-humans, while you have the likes of Magneto and Apocalypse doing so in the name of mutants. There was a lot of anti-Muslim sentiment post 9/11, now imagine if Bin Laden had the power to throw airplanes into skyscrapers by himself every single day at any time.

Second, regular people know they couldn't have been Asgardians or built an Iron Man suit in a cave. But being a mutant is something that could happen to anyone. You are there working 60 hours a week just to make ends meet in a crappy job, while your brother/cousin/co-worker suddenly finds out he can fly, control minds or win an arm-wrestling context with Thor and is set for life. Alternatively, your crazy ex-boyfriend/co-worker/neighbor that hates you now can suddenly move mountains with telekinesis or run faster than a jet, and can murder you without anyone even noticing or being able to do something about it.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Hasn’t the conflict between the world of anti mutant hatred in Xmen and all the super heroes around always been a bit weird in the comics anyway? I even thought it was a bit strange when I read the original Secret Wars 

It is a little weird in the comics but at least the X-Men and anti-mutant prejudice have been around in the comics from near the start of the Silver Age.

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On 7/16/2022 at 2:33 PM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Yikes.

According to Box Office Mojo, Friday estimates for T:L&T indicate and 80% drop from last Friday. Oof. I might get to see it on D+ next week after all. 

According to this the second weekend dropoff was huge, but almost exactly on par for recent MCU films:

Quote

It was a hefty fall for Thor: Love & Thunder at the box office this weekend, but the MCU sequel still took the top spot with ease. The fourth film in the Thor franchise brought in $46 million in its second weekend, which equates to a 68% drop from last weekend’s $143 million opening. That fall is slightly above the 67% drops for Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and Spider-Man: No Way Home and is on par with Black Widow’s 68% drop last year, although it must be noted that Black Widow was also a day-and-date theatrical and Disney+ release.

 

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16 minutes ago, DMC said:

According to this the second weekend dropoff was huge, but almost exactly on par for recent MCU films:

 

Not only was BW a simultaneous release, but it came out at a time when Covid restrictions were still a major factor. If I recall correctly, the release roughly coincided with the rise of Delta variant and many regions were entering their 4th wave. Not a fair comparison. 

Both Spider-Man NWH and Dr Strange 2 opened higher. NWH opened a lot higher. Dr. Strange 2 took 92% of its domestic cume by the end of week 4, whereas NWH had only taken about 84%. L&T is likely to have legs similar to Dr Strange 2. 

After 10 days T:L&T's domestic box office is tracking just below Jurassic World: Dominion; and about 20% below Dr. Strange 2.  The thing'll still make a truckload of moneys, but on a $250 mil budget, that's gotta sting a little.

 

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20 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Both Spider-Man NWH and Dr Strange 2 opened higher. NWH opened a lot higher.

That's not really surprising though, is it? Spider Man is like the most popular character, and lots of people were aware of the extra spider-men and wanted to see that. Probably gave Dr. Strange a bump too, since he was in it and it was more multiverse. Plus again, leaks of cameos.

Or maybe the problem is that Spider-Man had three spider-men, Dr. Strange had three Dr. Stranges, and Thor only had two thors. Clearly a step backwards!

Edit: Just realized Doctor Strange 2 had four Dr. Stranges

Spoiler

I forgot about that weird scene on titan where the Illuminati murder theirs for really no reason. I get that he destroyed a universe, but not on purpose and out of desperation. He certainly didn't seem evil, and accepting his fate makes me think he'd learned his lesson and could have been redeemed? But nah fuck it just have Black Bolt kill him.

 

Edited by RumHam
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14 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Not only was BW a simultaneous release, but it came out at a time when Covid restrictions were still a major factor. If I recall correctly, the release roughly coincided with the rise of Delta variant and many regions were entering their 4th wave. Not a fair comparison. 

Yeah but considering the other two had basically identical dropoffs it's clearly a fair comparison overall.  I'm a bit surprised Thor is underperforming Strange so much, but not Spiderman - that's a given.  Anyway, as the article notes, Thor has already made $498 million worldwide, so I'm sure Disney is feeling just fine.

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56 minutes ago, RumHam said:

That's not really surprising though, is it? Spider Man is like the most popular character, and lots of people were aware of the extra spider-men and wanted to see that. Probably gave Dr. Strange a bump too, since he was in it and it was more multiverse. Plus again, leaks of cameos.

Maybe not surprising but certainly unprecedented. None of the previous Spider-Man films came close to NWH's global box office. I guess a lot of pent up demand and going full-send on the nostalgia pump might've worked, maybe. Apparently it's also one of the better installments. 

56 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Or maybe the problem is that Spider-Man had three spider-men, Dr. Strange had three Dr. Stranges, and Thor only had two thors. Clearly a step backwards!

Clearly. Give us an army of Thors and a squadron of jealous hammers you cowards. 

50 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah but considering the other two had basically identical dropoffs it's clearly a fair comparison overall.

That's bait. 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?
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2 hours ago, DMC said:

Math is bait?  "You can't sell science...."

I missed "The other two..."

But like I said, they opened much higher. I think the vast majority of people who see these films ultimately see all of these films. You kind of have to to stay "caught up", or at least people think they do. 

The distinction is; do you rush to the theater opening weekend, opening week, whenever you can get around to it, or wait for streaming. I suspect that this Thor film will generate a lot of views when it hits D+ but not much at the box office compared to the other two.

On the other hand, there's not much coming out in the next few months to compete with it, so who knows?

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I tend to think most Marvel movies are pretty much review proof, people are going to watch them regardless and probably don't tend to even read reviews. Also I think the cinema experience is dying out, and there are so few movies that people will actually go and watch on the big screen, so when they do go, it has to be more of an experience, a tentpole event. Marvel movies tend to create that 'event' atmosphere.

If I had the capacity to go watch a movie in the cinema these days, it would only be for the Marvel movies I think. Right now I just will wait till it comes to streaming. 

Having said that, even on streaming I can barely bring myself to watch things which are clearly not good. Black Widow is sitting half watched on my queue and maybe I won't ever bother with Love and Thunder if it's as bad as the reviews make out.

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Well, I don't know what reviews make out of it, as I don't bother to read them, but it's certainly not for everyone. My daughter, who loves Hemsworth's Thor passionately, said it felt almost like a parody of a Thor movie, and rate it as the worst of the four installments. I, on the other hand, liked it much more, not as much as Ragnarok perhaps, but clearly above the other two.

Edited by 3CityApache
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