US Politics: Cancelling Democracy

[TormundsWoman]

16 hours ago, JGP said:

I love her.

Totally. That grandstanding AG asshole knew there was already a case of rape for the Ohio 27 yr old who did it and the mother reported it back in June 22 to the police, before the doc did the procedure. Police even confirmed that DNA testing from the Indiana abortion clinic was used to check paternity and confirm suspect identity on the Ohio rape case. And between all the grandstanding multiple statements, the Indiana AG office did check to see if the abortion was reported. And yet, he persisted... All because some outlets cannot doublecheck facts and some politician sees it as a chance to solidify his base. I would say she should sue the media outlets that promoted and gave platform to that ass along with suing Todd. But that's just me speaking out of anger.

[TormundsWoman]

On 7/15/2022 at 10:16 AM, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Dude.

If you're intellecutally unable to distinguish between a 6 month old baby (viable outside that human incubator), and a cluster of cells (not viable outside that human incubator) then you really shouldn't have any opinion on reproductive matters at all.

Lol, and here was me thinking it was the forum handle that made me like you...

EDIT: And because I still cannot figure out how to edit and include multiple quote:

@Mindwalker "Did anyone expect something different from Manchin this time around?!"

No. Honestly the idea he'd support anything for renewables seems laughable to me considering the support he's getting from the fossil fuel lobby. I don't know why anyone would expect him to. He chose his stance and flipping him on this particular topic will be extremely difficult as he has skin in that game.

[JGP]

5 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Well, actually, the federal income tax system stands alone, so no (not unless they amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986).  States can define terms how they wish for their own state tax systems.  Of course, many of those states don’t have an income tax (they prefer mooching off of federal money or not providing services), so it’s moot.  

No State income tax? That's precarious.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

28 minutes ago, JGP said:

No State income tax? That's precarious.

Depends on how you look at it.  Florida, Texas, Wyoming, Washington, South Dakota, Nevada and Alaska (which doesn’t need it because oil) have made that choice.  Tennessee and a couple of other states have incredibly low income tax rates or don’t tax things like capital gains.

These states more or less rely on high sales tax, business taxes (sometimes on a gross receipts basis) and tolls and fines (and, frankly and hypocritically federal money).  They also don’t provide a lot of citizen services.  I have….views…on the morality of this tax policy.  

[JGP]

Ergo precarious.

I was just looking at the revenue offsets employed by zero income tax States.

Enjoy it while it lasts, I guess. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

1 minute ago, JGP said:

Ergo precarious.

I was just looking at the revenue offsets employed by zero income tax States.

Enjoy it while it lasts, I guess. 

But they will always get a bailout in a disaster, and so….

Texas and Florida are the biggest of the bunch.  Texas would have to amend its constitution to have an income tax. That ain’t happening.  And Florida.  Well, it’s Florida.  

Mind you, states like NY, CA and NJ probably need to rethink their budgets, including their state tax burdens.  I know a lot of people disagree with me on that, and that’s fine, but I think these states would be a lot more competitive with a 6-7% rate, a more thoughtful sales tax and fewer “targeted incentives”.

[ThinkerX]

1 hour ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I just feel like Murkowski is a better ally at times than Manchin, except that she is a Republican so her presence in the Senate doesn't give the Dems majority leadership. I know we could probably go down the line and show where he voted with Dems and she didn't, but his Dem votes are so center-to-center-right it's hard to give him much credit. Murkowski at least, once in awhile, takes risks and votes her conscience vs. what the Republicans want. Manchin, I guess, does that too by sticking with the Republicans more often than the Dems. But where Murkowski's votes against the party do seem like moral/ethical breaks from her party (ACA for example), Manchin's votes against the Dems are far more self-serving.

If Murkowski wins reelection, then it will be her last term, meaning she's not worried about reelection, hence reducing the hold of the party apparat over her.  Said this before during the big BBB debate last year: The D's toss enough pork in her direction, concede on something major like ANWAR or whatever, and you might get her vote on some version of the BBB.  Given how slimmed down it is NOW, it probably wouldn't hurt to try something like that at the current time.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

9 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

If Murkowski wins reelection, then it will be her last term, meaning she's not worried about reelection, hence reducing the hold of the party apparat over her.  Said this before during the big BBB debate last year: The D's toss enough pork in her direction, concede on something major like ANWAR or whatever, and you might get her vote on some version of the BBB.  Given how slimmed down it is NOW, it probably wouldn't hurt to try something like that at the current time.

I’ll know more after next Sunday, but at least for now we are all assuming that a dodo has more life than the BBB.  

[Raja]

I know we've moved past the abortion talk, and I don't want to put hypothetical scenarios here, so these are real things going on right now. This is honestly no way to practice medicine, the US already has very poor maternal mortality & morbidity indicators compared to other OECD countries, and the examples in this piece are only going to make that worse

Confusion post-Roe spurs delays, denials for some lifesaving pregnancy care

Quote

A woman with a life-threatening ectopic pregnancy sought emergency care at the University of Michigan Hospital after a doctor in her home state worried that the presence of a fetal heartbeat meant treating her might run afoul of new restrictions on abortion.

 

At one Kansas City, Mo., hospital, administrators temporarily required “pharmacist approval” before dispensing medications used to stop postpartum hemorrhages, because they can also be also used for abortions.

 

And in Wisconsin, a woman bled for more than 10 days from an incomplete miscarriage after emergency room staff would not remove the fetal tissue amid a confusing legal landscape that has roiled obstetric care.

 

[A True Kaniggit]

17 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I’ll know more after next Sunday, but at least for now we are all assuming that a dodo has more life than the BBB.  

Too soon. 

That sad flightless species. Murdered by humans. 

[A True Kaniggit]

Here is a tax policy. After you make 100x as much as I make, we take 98% (with this number increasing) of any of your earnings afterwards, and use it to fix these damn roads. 
 

It be bumpy yo. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, ThinkerX said:

If Murkowski wins reelection, then it will be her last term, meaning she's not worried about reelection, hence reducing the hold of the party apparat over her.  Said this before during the big BBB debate last year: The D's toss enough pork in her direction, concede on something major like ANWAR or whatever, and you might get her vote on some version of the BBB.  Given how slimmed down it is NOW, it probably wouldn't hurt to try something like that at the current time.

I agree, I think it's totally worth working with her over Manchin because, at the very least, if she seems open to it, she's not going back and forth and playing these games that Manchin plays. 

[DMC]

24 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I agree, I think it's totally worth working with her over Manchin because, at the very least, if she seems open to it, she's not going back and forth and playing these games that Manchin plays. 

Thing is, Murkowski and Manchin are very close.  Ideologically but also in their interests and working relationship.  It's hard to see going around Manchin to get more out of Murkowski bearing any fruit - if only for those reasons and regardless of party.

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

we've moved past the abortion talk

  It's just that some guys you know don't like this issue mucking up their ideas of the significance of polling.  Or something, something, something, and plus, as they say, "It's not an interest of mine."

Yet.  It's front and center of every campaign going into the midterms.

And my goodness, despite trying on every level to out romper the romper, his campaign is running on empty, so all he's got is abortion.

https://ohiodems.org/memorandum-j-d-vance-is-flailing/

J.D. Vance, who stands there comparing abortion to SLAVERY!

https://ohiodems.org/vice-jd-vance-compared-abortion-to-slavery/

The only thing he's even more determinedly ignorant of, is rape.  And hunger, and etc.

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

Biden is getting negative coverage on his latest foreign trip over several embarrassing speech gaffes.

Stuff like reading his cue prompts as if they were speech text, ("repeat this line") or mistakenly reading "selfish" over "selfless" to describe deployed service members. Other word murdering as well, but I think we get the picture.
 
 Biden points to ‘selfishness’ of American troops in Saudi speech gaffe 
 
https://nypost.com/2022/07/16/biden-points-to-selfishness-of-american-troops-in-saudi-gaffe?utm_source=drive&utm_campaign=android_nyp
 
 Very unhelpful to the cause.

 

[DMC]

29 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Stuff like reading his cue prompts as if they were speech text, ("repeat this line") or mistakenly reading "selfish" over "selfless" to describe deployed service members. Other word murdering as well, but I think we get the picture.
 
 Biden points to ‘selfishness’ of American troops in Saudi speech gaffe 
 
https://nypost.com/2022/07/16/biden-points-to-selfishness-of-american-troops-in-saudi-gaffe?utm_source=drive&utm_campaign=android_nyp
 
 Very unhelpful to the cause.

Yeah cuz chronically misspeaking is totally what led to Dubya's downfall.  And he was 54 to 62 years old during his presidency.

[Mindwalker]

I'm confused as to Manchin's chances for reelection; I thought I read his numbers were rising because of his whole schtick.

Also, thank you, Rand Paul. Ugh, I feel dirty now.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

19 hours ago, DMC said:

Thing is, Murkowski and Manchin are very close.  Ideologically but also in their interests and working relationship.  It's hard to see going around Manchin to get more out of Murkowski bearing any fruit - if only for those reasons and regardless of party.

This may be true (I have no earthly idea about their interpersonal relationships), but I do think if--magically--we were working with Murkowski instead of Manchin on BBB right now (again, magically, I just don't see it happening any time soon), she'd at least be honest and not keep yanking things off the table she said she was open to. Manchin is a bad faith negotiator, and every time we go to the table with him, he makes the Dems look like fools and he gets a few points bump in his polls back home.

I guess the real point here is that negotiating with Manchin in any kind of public way is harmful to Democrats. He is trolling them, and he has no intention of letting anything meaningful pass. Look at the "BBB" Biden just ordered congress Dems to support Manchin on--compared to what it was when it started, compared to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, nth negotiations with him. It's a joke.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

4 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

I'm confused as to Manchin's chances for reelection; I thought I read his numbers were rising because of his whole schtick.

Also, thank you, Rand Paul. Ugh, I feel dirty now.

Yeah, it seems his trolling of the Dems has helped him significantly back home. That's why he keeps doing it.

While it's unlikely, Dems need to win other seats in the Senate and miraculously hold onto the house. I hear it's not impossible any longer for them to possibly win at least one side of Congress. We'll see. 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

she'd at least be honest and not keep yanking things off the table she said she was open to. Manchin is a bad faith negotiator

I agree whole-heartedly that she seems to generally be a good faith negotiator while Manchin very much is not.  But, I wonder how many Republicans would feel the same - and her "present" vote during Kavanaugh's confirmation emphasizes she can still be a craven politician like the rest of them.

4 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

I'm confused as to Manchin's chances for reelection; I thought I read his numbers were rising because of his whole schtick.

They are!  They went up to 57% this past spring from 40% in early 2021.  But...his approval was 40 percent as recently as early 2021.  These things can change by 2024.  And West Virginia is still a tough win for him - he only won by three points in 2018 during a very favorable environment for Democrats.  Plus, WV is getting more and more Republican - Romney won the state by 27 points in 2012 while Trump won it by 39 points in 2020.  There's also the strong likelihood Manchin will face a primary challenger and that primary challenger could (if the Dems can find another breathing Democrat in West Virginia) be a serious threat.