US Politics: Cancelling Democracy

[Maithanet]

7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

If he gets convicted there will be riots and massacres, and republicans far more competent than him will use the imprisonment to rally their base.

If the country abandons the rule of law because they fear riots and massacres, then what do you think will happen?  Because to me, that future looks clearly worse. 

[James Arryn]

If the guilty must be habitually excused if powerful enough because their reckoning would endanger the system, that’s just another reason to change the system.
 

Also, as the US loves political dynasties, you are furthering the kind of ‘born above the law’ families of systems past. After all, an Ivanka conviction would involve most if not all of the same dangers/precedents. Ergo, by this reasoning, Trump’s family is also immune to prosecution. Etc. 

[mormont]

I absolutely agree that it's more important to show that nobody is above the law than it is to protect against the possibility of disruption, if that is what is causing the reticence to prosecute. I'm not at all sure that it is.

What I mostly wanted to say, though, is that the comments suggesting the problem is actually just a lack of 'guts' by Biden or Garland are reminiscent (to me) of people complaining about GRRM just needing to sit down and write or of football (soccer) fans complaining of their players' absence of 'heart' in a losing streak. That is to say, they're reducing a complex problem with opaque causes to a simple moral one represented by lack of will. This is a perfectly natural way of emotionally coping with disappointment, but shouldn't be mistaken for a serious explanation.

There are reasons why Trump isn't already in a cell. They will come out in the end. They may prove to be good ones or bad ones or a mix of both. But they're certainly not solvable by howling about the Biden admin just needing to grow a pair.

[Mindwalker]

Nice leaked audio, wherein Steve Bannon spells it out for us:

Leaked Audio: Before Election Day, Bannon Said Trump Planned to Falsely Claim Victory

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/07/leaked-audio-steve-bannon-trump-2020-election-declare-victory/

 

[Maithanet]

For me, it is that there are indications that the Justice Department since Jan 2021 has been narrowly focused on going after people who broke into the Capitol on Jan 6, but not on broadly pursuing a more aggressive, larger investigation into who was actually responsible.  If the Justice Department goes looking for smaller players, that's what they're going to find.  

I will say that the Justice Dept does need to make sure that they have a very strong case against Trump before bringing charges.  But I would also say that several members of Trump's circle (Flynn for example) seem to have clearly broken the law, and yet thus far, there have been no prosecutions.  The Mueller investigation (which had a similarly narrow focus) had a much stronger track record of bringing prosecutions and convictions. 

[Martell Spy]

Republican AG says he'll investigate Indiana doctor who provided care to 10-year-old rape victim
The account about the girl has sparked intense dialogue in Washington, with some questioning its validity.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/13/indiana-doctor-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764

Quote

 

Indiana’s Republican attorney general said on Wednesday that his office planned to investigate the Indiana doctor who helped a 10-year-old rape victim who crossed state lines to have an abortion.

Dr. Caitlin Bernard, an obstetrician-gynecologist in Indianapolis, has told multiple outlets that she provided care to the 10-year-old after a child abuse doctor in Ohio contacted her. The child was six weeks and three days into the pregnancy, Bernard said. After the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last month, a wave of state-level abortion restrictions took effect, including in Ohio, a state that bans abortions after about six weeks of pregnancy, with no exceptions for rape or incest.

“We’re gathering the evidence as we speak, and we’re going to fight this to the end, including looking at her licensure if she failed to report. And in Indiana it’s a crime … to intentionally not report,” state Attorney General Todd Rokita said on Fox News on Wednesday night. “This is a child, and there’s a strong public interest in understanding if someone under the age of 16 or under the age of 18 or really any woman is having abortion in our state. And then if a child is being sexually abused, of course parents need to know. Authorities need to know. Public policy experts need to know.”

 

 

[DMC]

I think the state investigations illustrate the difficulty in bringing charges.  There's virtually no reason to doubt Tish James' vigilance in going after Trump - she's built her career and reputation on it - but it's taken her this long to just get the Trumps to sit for depositions.  I think we also have to acknowledge just how slippery Trump is.  This guy has more experience with the US legal system than almost anybody - he's been involved in literally thousands of legal actions with federal and state governments.  And let's face it, the fact he avoided prosecution throughout his incredibly shady business career suggests he is actually good at one thing.

All that being said, the DOJ has far more capacity and latitude to pursue Trump and his enablers yet has not -- and as I said yesterday this was always effectively intentional with their "bottom-up" approach to the investigation.  I suppose the only "hope" (which I know is basically a curse word around here) is the Committee/hearings actually do shame the DOJ as doing their work for them and spur Garland to be like, hey, maybe we should actually look into, say, Hutchinson's testimony, etc.  That seemed to be Weissmann's objective and rationale for speaking out the other day.

[Zorral]

30 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Republican AG says he'll investigate Indiana doctor who provided care to 10-year-old rape victim
The account about the girl has sparked intense dialogue in Washington, with some questioning its validity.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/13/indiana-doctor-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764

 

Of course a physician who saved a 10-year old girl's life must be investigated by the highest courts in the land -- though nobody can save the 10-year olds girl from the trauma of being raped and made pregnant -- while not giving a damn about the man who raped a 10-year old girl.  And even did it again after the first time.  Of course a 10-year old girl who menstruated is old enough to be raped, and to lie about it too.  It is known.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/13/ohio-10-year-old-rape-abortion-childhood/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/14/abortion-girl-rape-fox-carlson-watters-ohio/

And again, why do the the media keep blathering on about the heart at 6 weeks, when THERE IS NO HEART.

 

[Martell Spy]

Quote

while not giving a damn about the man who raped a 10-year old girl.

No, actually I think they care deeply about the rapist. In particular about the rapist's parental rights. It's part of the point of all this.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Martell Spy

[Zorral]

8 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

No, actually I think they care deeply about the rapist. In particular about the rapist's parental rights. It's part of the point of all this.

How damned foolish of me to have momentarily forgotten about the rapist's parental rights.  Particularly since many of the stories reporting what happened refer to the rapist as "the father of her baby."  That is, when not referring to him as "one of Biden's and the Dems' illegal immigrant rapist drug smugglers."  

[DireWolfSpirit]

The rapist need only to declare he has Republican tendencies and he will have full immunity and exoneration under our current legal system.

[JGP]

Boggles my mind there's a segment of society that doesn't find this disgusting all the way down.

 

 

[Tywin et al.]

Think of all the things we put age restrictions on because kids are deemed to not be mature enough to do them. And then process forcing a ten year old to carry a pregnancy to term and to ask that she understands why she had to after a horrifically traumatic event. Absolute madness.

[Hereward]

Not madness. Evil. Pure evil. Mengele type evil. My rage has no words.

[mormont]

What does this attorney think the likely outcomes are here?

Because one of them is that the child dies, and so does the fetus. Maternal mortality rates in the US aren't terrific to start with and the additional risk to life for a 10-year-old should not need to be spelled out. Another is that the 10 year old will be permanently disabled by the pregnancy and/or birth. Another is that the fetus, if born alive, will have to be delivered by Caesarean section. Yes, a C-section on a child.

In all these scenarios it's unlikely this 10 year old would ever be able to subsequently have a normal vaginal birth because of the damage wreaked on her body by this pregnancy. We will not even speak of the damage on her mind.

There is no way in the world that child will be able to raise a baby, so the baby will in fact be raised by someone else for years to come.

Where in all of this is the 'benefit of having the child'?

[Zorral]

22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Think of all the things we put age restrictions on because kids are deemed to not be mature enough to do them. And then process forcing a ten year old to carry a pregnancy to term and to ask that she understands why she had to after a horrifically traumatic event. Absolute madness.

Beyond that, no vagina 10 years old can handle labor.  No ten year old body can handle the normal weight gain of pregnancy either -- 25 - 40 lbs.

[JGP]

11 minutes ago, mormont said:

What does this attorney think the likely outcomes are here?

Because one of them is that the child dies, and so does the fetus. Maternal mortality rates in the US aren't terrific to start with and the additional risk to life for a 10-year-old should not need to be spelled out. Another is that the 10 year old will be permanently disabled by the pregnancy and/or birth. Another is that the fetus, if born alive, will have to be delivered by Caesarean section. Yes, a C-section on a child.

In all these scenarios it's unlikely this 10 year old would ever be able to subsequently have a normal vaginal birth because of the damage wreaked on her body by this pregnancy. We will not even speak of the damage on her mind.

There is no way in the world that child will be able to raise a baby, so the baby will in fact be raised by someone else for years to come.

Where in all of this is the 'benefit of having the child'?

Mmn hmn. All of that. Plus imagine going to school, pregnant at that age. My daughters have shown me TikToks and Snapchats other kids in their schools have made. The kids aren't all alright.

   

[Zorral]

Two actions took place due to the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association:

1) "Judge Issues Warrant For Indicted MAGA Clerk After She Attends Far-Right Event In Vegas"

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/tina-peters-warrant-constitutional-sheriffs-conference-vegas

2) "Far-Right Sheriffs Mull Schemes To Surveil Voters At Election Conspiracy Theory Event"

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/constitutional-sheriffs-richard-mack-true-the-vote?
 

[Zorral]

Secret Service erased text messages from January 5 and 6, 2021 -- after oversight officials asked for them, watchdog says

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/14/politics/secret-service-text-messages-erased/index.html

Quote

.... "The Committee on Homeland Security received a letter from the DHS Inspector General regarding the Secret Service deleting text messages the Office of Inspector General requested as part of its investigation into the January 6th attack on the Capitol," Thompson said. "The Committee will be briefed about this extraordinarily troubling destruction of records and respond accordingly."
While the letter does not say whether the DHS watchdog believes these text messages were erased intentionally or for a nefarious reason, the incident adds to growing questions about the Secret Service's response to the US Capitol attack. ....

Let's not forget either, those weirdos running about the apartment complex so close to the VP residence, posing as SS members, paying no rent, and stockpiling arsenals.

But we daren't request there be any repercussions for these seditious, traitorous behaviors because they'll get mad and start shooting.

[Tywin et al.]