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The Winds of Winter: The Latest Info (updated 10 July 2022)

Werthead

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Werthead Council Member

Werthead

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59 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

He did. 1:00 into this video.

I just realised I even quoted that on the first page of the update. Total mindblank on that.

So at the moment it looks like he had 150-200 MS pages left over from ADWD, effectively as the starting point in July 2011; 375 MS pages by April 2013 and ~1,350 manuscript pages today out of a planned ~1800 MS page total.

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Dreadscythe95 Hedge Knight

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22 hours ago, Stark Revenge said:

Are you saying he didn’t start truly writing Winds until 2019? I haven’t heard this before, did he say that on his blog? Was he too busy with the show beforehand? 

Yeah that does make sense to me, the conclusion is the easiest part to write, so hopefully Dream does go faster, guess we’ll see. 

It is unserstood from what he has done ands said during the years. Wait, I will find you the video.

Watch this, it's very interesting: 

 

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Dreadscythe95 Hedge Knight

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22 hours ago, Werthead said:

What edition is that? No English-language edition of ADWD is 1400 pages long to my knowledge. The hardover is around 1,000 pages and the one-volume paperback is around 1200. Even the two-volume UK paperback edition only adds up to about 1200.

It's in Greek.

The video of Preston above does a good research  I feel. It makes a lot of sense.

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9 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

It is unserstood from what he has done ands said during the years. Wait, I will find you the video.

Clickbait nonsense from a very well-known "let's say something controversial for hits" source.

GRRM did not start writing TWoW in 2019. Someone posted the video to Ty Franck (GRRM's former assistant and co-creator of The Expanse and he tore them a new one.

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Dreadscythe95 Hedge Knight

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4 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Clickbait nonsense from a very well-known "let's say something controversial for hits" source.

GRRM did not start writing TWoW in 2019. Someone posted the video to Ty Franck (GRRM's former assistant and co-creator of The Expanse and he tore them a new one.

I don't really like Preston for the same reasons, I am glad you said that.

I just thought it makes sense. I don't say it in a bad/negative manner. I personaly don't like the way some people treat the author.

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sifth Council Member

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8 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Clickbait nonsense from a very well-known "let's say something controversial for hits" source.

GRRM did not start writing TWoW in 2019. Someone posted the video to Ty Franck (GRRM's former assistant and co-creator of The Expanse and he tore them a new one.

Even if GRRM hadn't started writing the book until 2019, do you honestly expect he would admit it. I personally don't believe this theory, but if GRRM ever did admit something insane like "I only started writing the book 4 years ago" it would would be suicide for both his carrier and his legacy as an author. Though I can see why his lack of being able to provide results, is driving people to come up with these crazy theories. Since 2013, we've had 5 versions of The Dance of the Dragon and it has sort of led people to believe he's writing in circles. I wonder if GRRM will give us a 6th version of the Dance the before the book comes out...............because why not, lol

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sifth Council Member

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36 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I just realised I even quoted that on the first page of the update. Total mindblank on that.

So at the moment it looks like he had 150-200 MS pages left over from ADWD, effectively as the starting point in July 2011; 375 MS pages by April 2013 and ~1,350 manuscript pages today out of a planned ~1800 MS page total.

Pretty sure at the very minimum he has 20 unused chapters for ADWD, possibly more. I don't like to use conjecture when it comes to these things, but I have a hard time believing the battle of Fire and Ice, wont be more than 5 chapters each; if we're going by how GRRM has done major battles in the past, such as Black Water and battle on The Wall.

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Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Council Member

Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

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44 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

I don't really like Preston for the same reasons, I am glad you said that.

I just thought it makes sense. I don't say it in a bad/negative manner. I personaly don't like the way some people treat the author.

I mean, I don't really like Preston either, but I do understand why he and many others may have come to that conclusion. Judging by GRRM's comments over the years, he did work a lot on Winds early on, had a big slump circa 2015-2019, and then picked up steam again in 2020. 

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Kyll.Ing. Council Member

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4 hours ago, Equilibrium said:

What is the standard than and what is the upper limit those American shelves can receive? Would any bookstore realistically refuse to carry TWOW?

Picking up this for a moment: Given how popular that book will be, I think the bookstores are more likely to buy a new set of shelves specifically for TWoW than refusing to carry it.

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BlackLightning Council Member

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On 10/24/2022 at 11:06 PM, Stark Revenge said:

Does anyone buy the theory that he’s writing Winds and Dream at the same time and waiting to publish both at the same time? That’s what I’m holding out for at least. If we get Winds on its own I’ll be very happy of course, but I have very little hope of ever seeing Dream with the pace he’s at. May he be blessed with long life and good health. 

No.

Maybe he's writing the POVs that are heavier on lore, history and magic (like Melisandre, Bran, Dany or Arya) at the same time for the sake of consistency but not for all of them. And that's a huge maybe.

 

Not to mention writing Winds and Dream at the same and waiting to publish both at the same time doesn't make any sense. It's too risky of a gambit and it's too stressful to pull something off like that when you have had sooooo many people waiting for ten years. Not only that but it just doesn't make any sense to do that. It doesn't make sense logically, it doesn't make sense financially, it doesn't make sense professionally and it doesn't make sense artistically.

It's not a real theory; it's a fandom pipe dream.

Plus, he tried to do that with Feast and Dance only for it to backfire spectacularly.

I think he's made a lot more progress in the last two years than he had in the last eleven years combined.

On 10/25/2022 at 8:23 AM, Crixus said:

Man, I feel for him honestly. It's clear he is working on it, it's mammoth, he is a perfectionist - I mean, still rewriting chapters?! The irony is most of us would be more than happy with such chapters, but if he isn't, and he is the creator, then I guess we can't expect him to put out content that isn't up to his own exacting standards. It must be exhausting to get asked this endlessly, when he is working to finish it as best he can.

Also, couldn't help but laugh at his comment about someone tweeting him demanding ADOS the day after WoW being released - funny but also sad, and true. 

I'd rather have a 100% complete, "perfect" product

If he feels he has to rewrite because he accidentally created a plot hole in King's Landing, then he has to rewrite.

On 10/24/2022 at 11:22 PM, cytherea said:

George claims he's three quarters of the way done with Winds of Winter!

https://thebrag.com/george-r-r-martin-confirms-hes-3-4-done-with-winds-of-winter/

This is great news!

If he has written and pre-edited the story in somewhat chronological order, it means that the leftovers from A Dance with Dragons (the battle of Meereen, Arianne meeting Aegon, etc.) have been written and well-integrated in with The Winds of Winter.

On 10/25/2022 at 11:56 AM, Dreadscythe95 said:

You will get Winds in the next 2 years, but Dream is at least 8 years away imo.

I think we'll get Winds before the end of next year.

On 10/25/2022 at 6:46 AM, TeethGrinder said:

He looks and sounds so exasperated. 

Honestly not any more hopeful about it being released, between his age and the fact that I think he's probably lost all passion for the project with the amount of pressure he's been put under to get it released. 

I kind of feel bad for him. He created a monster for himself with his own success. 

I think it has more to do with the fact that he is answering the same question...the same question that has popped up at least three times a year over the last ten years.

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Stark Revenge Noble

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How much time will there be between when he announces Winds is finished and it hits shelves do you think? I’m now realizing how much I’ve forgotten since I last read the series, who tf is Areo Hotah? The Dornish storyline is very vague for me and I even forgot about the upcoming battle for Mereen. I’m very much going to need to reread the series before I read Winds. 

I stopped watching the show once it went past the books, I have seen a moderate amount of spoilers still, but not enough to make me feel that I saw everything important. With the scale and scope of the books compared to the show, there’s only so much you could be spoiled anyway. But I am glad I made the decision not to watch the show and stuck with it. 

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cytherea Freerider

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1 hour ago, Stark Revenge said:

I’m now realizing how much I’ve forgotten since I last read the series, who tf is Areo Hotah?

He's originally Mellario of Norvos' guard, Mellario being Doran Martell's wife. Currently, he's Doran's chief of the household guard.

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Roughspun Sellsword

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I really like the repeated confirmation that he intends to finish his manuscript first and then discuss with the publishers how to get it into publishable length. I think chopping off two plot arch endings of aDwD wasn’t … the best, and if a repetition can be avoided like this, that’s good.

Also, since it was the publishers (editors) who advocated for moving chapters from aDwD to tWoW, they really shouldn’t be surprised to find it starting out at 200 pages longer than intended …

19 hours ago, Stark Revenge said:

How much time will there be between when he announces Winds is finished and it hits shelves do you think?

As I take it, the final phase of work on aDwD was extremely busy parallel work: approximately, new chapters were written at the same time as chapters were (really really) finalised through the editors. Both editors apparently were closely in the loop about the status and size of the manuscript in the home stretch. I believe, in the case of aDwD, the work left after final delivery of the manuscript was strongly reduced by this, and they apparently/probably had settled on a target manuscript/book size during this final phase, so that the production plans possibly were already prepared ahead of time.

By which I mean … not necessarily much. The actual text of tWoW might again be submitted in a very polished or pre-edited state, which the editors probably will already have seen. But, speculatively, the discussion about manuscript size / book length(s) might take some additional time this time round.

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Calibandar Council Member

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From the livestream:

believes #TheWindsOfWinter will be longest in the series, and he thinks he's maybe 3/4th of the way done but can't predict when done. He recently re-read some chapters and decided they need to be rewritten, for example. But he's working on it!

The fact that he is only 3/4th done and continues to find reasons to rewrite the chapters he already wrote is bad news.

He seems very far removed from finishing. In a way its good that he gave us this info because now we know that progress has been slower than even expected and this book really is years away, especially in light of the rewrites. Of course he has no idea when he will be finished if this is how things are going.

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Jussi Council Member

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New(?) information from the Late Show with Stephen Colbert:

https://winteriscoming.net/2022/10/27/george-rr-martin-why-sci-fi-fantasy-less-optimistic-these-days/

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Finishing The Winds of Winter will take “a while”

As Colbert says, he’s legally obligated to ask Martin about his progress on The Winds of Winter, the long-in-coming sixth entry in the author’s Song of Ice and Fire series. “I am making progress with The Winds of Winter, but it’s still not done yet.” Martin said. “I think it’s going to be a very big book.”

All in all, Martin thinks he’s “about 3/4 of the way done.” He’s done writing the full stories for some of the point-of-view characters, “but not others…It’s still gonna take me a while.”

Colbert asked the obvious question: “So, 10 years to go 75 percent of the way through means…?” Martin didn’t guess as to when he might finish, but he did say what everyone was thinking: “That’s depressing, that’s depressing.”

 

I'm referring to this part: "He’s done writing the full stories for some of the point-of-view characters".

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