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Star Trek: There! Are! 4! shows!


IheartIheartTesla

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Shaw isn't really evil though, is he? Angry and seemingly not dealing with a major trauma for more than 30 years sure, but not evil.  One suspects the potential spin off of Picard that's been bandied about might just be a Titan show that revolves around Shaw, Seven, and how he needs to heal while exploring space...maybe.

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Reddit has the same opinion about a Shaw spin-off. I’m just gonna have to get off the Trek train if that happens, my opinions apparently don’t line up at all with the rest of the fandom. Hires a Borg (who was far more culpable in their misdeeds than Picard, and even voluntarily tried rejoining once) and then just dead names her and says how much he hates her. Rants at Picard (who was completely helpless in his role at 359 which would have gone down identically had another Captain been assimilated). Is constantly rude and unprofessional in front of his crew, whose morale he’s supposed to be in charge of. 

We’re putting this guy in the hall of fame alongside our Kirks, our Picards, our Siskos? Really? I’ve completely missed a meeting on this one.

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5 hours ago, Werthead said:

On the changelings need to regenerate, it's never really clarified in huge amounts of detail. We are told that Odo is pretty crap at changing shape compared to the other changelings and it is inferred that they don't have some of the same problems he does. However, it is never stated that the changelings do not need to regenerate ever, at all. It is certainly possible that experienced Founders can hold their shape for many days or weeks before needing to regenerate, but it is not stated that they never need to regenerate at all.

That might be true - the point was never that they never had to regenerate. After all, their natural state is the iquid worm. However, DS9 introduces the fact that after the Founders got infected with the virus they cannot change shape at all which is why the Female Changeling is stuck in her human form - and that doesn't lead to her suffering from monstrous pain nor does it lead to her death from the prolonged inability to regenerate.

Also, of course, it is the very nature of the Changelings to take different shapes. It is their state of being, and they can very much become other beings, structures, etc. The idea that this is work for them they have to recover from feels kind of weird to me. It might make sense for youngster like Odo, especially ones who are at odds with their own existence/nature, but not for experienced individuals who actually know themselves and their abilities.

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

As counterpoints, Weyoun recommends the female changeling regenerate in Season 7 when the Section 31 illness is taking full hold, and in The Ship a fully-fledged Founder seems to die after not being able to regenerate for several days (although it is also said he was also injured in the ship crash, which is bizarre as changelings are not affected by blunt force trauma).

And that would be the scene where the Founder tells Weyoun that she can no longer change form, right?

The Founder in 'The Ship' seems to die in the wake of whatever injuries it suffered during the ship's crash - which are never elaborated on but which should be something different than blunt force trauma.

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

In addition, there is nothing to suggest these rogue changelings aren't younger and more inexperienced Founders in the first place.

If the writers actually think things through then the way to make sense of things could be that the Changelings we have seen so far are the offspring of but a couple of Founders who broke away from the Great Link. The leader or leading cabal could have proper Changeling abilities while the guy Worf killed and the Titan Changeling could simply be youngsters who are only a couple of decades old.

I'd imagine that the entity weirdo female captain contacted last episode was one of the leaders of the Changeling conspiracy. I actually did enjoy that scene because it could be our first hint as to how the Alpha Quadrant Founders stayed in contact with the Dominion forces and the Great Link in the Gamma Quadrant after the wormhole was closed.

But my impression there clearly wasn't that weirdo captain woman was a Changeling herself, but merely that a Changeling attached part of itself to her so the woman could be monitored and receive remote instruction.

If she actually was a Changeling herself then both her silly mannierisms as well as the way in which she contacted her superior could be a hint that she is a pretty young and inexperienced Changeling.

In relation to the Changelings and phaser fire we now can go with your earlier take that Worf's weapon was apparently modified/had the correct setting to destroy a Changelings - since the weapons aboard the Titan couldn't do the trick. Although I'm kind of a loss how the Changeling posing as La Forge's daughter could, in the end, be stunned. Since that's what happened there, right?

It might actually be an interesting twist if it turned out that the Female Founder was indeed the one behing the conspiracy, perhaps by way of being able to spawn offspring and smuggling them out of wherever she is held without the Federation realizing what's going on. She could also have gotten out of her prison without anybody knowing what's going by leaving behind some goo while moving her essence away (that could make sense if she was existing predominantly or exclusively in liquid state in her prison).

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

Reddit has the same opinion about a Shaw spin-off. I’m just gonna have to get off the Trek train if that happens, my opinions apparently don’t line up at all with the rest of the fandom. Hires a Borg (who was far more culpable in their misdeeds than Picard, and even voluntarily tried rejoining once) and then just dead names her and says how much he hates her. Rants at Picard (who was completely helpless in his role at 359 which would have gone down identically had another Captain been assimilated). Is constantly rude and unprofessional in front of his crew, whose morale he’s supposed to be in charge of. 

We’re putting this guy in the hall of fame alongside our Kirks, our Picards, our Siskos? Really? I’ve completely missed a meeting on this one.

Ohh he's no Kirk, Picard or Sisko. But he's definitely a Jellico or Berkeley; where you have a flawed character, that seems evil, who gradually becomes more likeable, the longer you get to know them.

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45 minutes ago, sifth said:

Ohh he's no Kirk, Picard or Sisko. But he's definitely a Jellico or Berkeley; where you have a flawed character, that seems evil, who gradually becomes more likeable, the longer you get to know them.

I'd be, at this moment, interested in a show where the Captain isn't necessarily the primary hero. Provide he's surrounded by the right cast of supporting characters.  

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Am I the only one who finds it strange that Seven of Nine, still wishes to be called by her Borg name? If anything, it should be flipped, where she wants to regain her human identity. It bothers me a little, that she finds her human name to be an insult and rather be called a number.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

That might be true - the point was never that they never had to regenerate. After all, their natural state is the iquid worm. However, DS9 introduces the fact that after the Founders got infected with the virus they cannot change shape at all which is why the Female Changeling is stuck in her human form - and that doesn't lead to her suffering from monstrous pain nor does it lead to her death from the prolonged inability to regenerate.

The same is also true of Odo, who is also infected.

My take was that the virus (eventually) locked the changelings into a single shape and then degraded their morphic field to kill them. Along the way it kind of worked like when the changelings locked Odo into a human form for months, and he did not die or collapse due to not being able to regenerate.

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1 hour ago, sifth said:

Am I the only one who finds it strange that Seven of Nine, still wishes to be called by her Borg name? If anything, it should be flipped, where she wants to regain her human identity. It bothers me a little, that she finds her human name to be an insult and rather be called a number.

I’m wondering if she thinks of it as her ‘Voyager’ name. She may have been designated ‘Seven of Nine Tertiary Adjunct…’ by the Borg, but they never need to actually say it out loud cos you know, Borg. Hearing the name ‘Seven’ she’d more likely associate with her rehabilitation aboard Voyager, and everything Janeway did for her. 

More likely, the writers just saw it as a convenient wedge to force between her and Shaw and didn’t think that much about it.

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Haven't really began my dive into S3: Picard, but I am enjoying the memes on social media going "There are no lights!". I take it this is somewhat of a theme in the more recent editions.

However, someone also pointed out that S2 TNG had its moments with dim lighting. I personally think this has mostly to do with Yesterday's Enterprise where the battle ship version was somehow lit differently than the science vessel version (of course, the bridge etc.  design was also different, but that made sense)

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19 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Haven't really began my dive into S3: Picard, but I am enjoying the memes on social media going "There are no lights!". I take it this is somewhat of a theme in the more recent editions.

However, someone also pointed out that S2 TNG had its moments with dim lighting. I personally think this has mostly to do with Yesterday's Enterprise where the battle ship version was somehow lit differently than the science vessel version (of course, the bridge etc.  design was also different, but that made sense)

YE was season 3.

 10-Forward, which was introduced in seqson 2, was dark. The broefing room was always quite dark

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Hmm.

Spoiler

ok, latest episode: fantastic to see Ro Laren again.  But I thought we were suppose to see a character reveal on one of the main TNG people as being a Changling.  Because from that article i linked to before they thought of using the Conspiracy bugs but decided against it because there was no way (not precisely true, I think this detail is wrong because they saved an Admiral who had been infected, didn't they?) to undo that, the character would be dead.  So they're using Changlings to be able to pull this off without killing off the character.  Ok, but no reveal and confrontation like that happened, maybe that'll happen in a later episode.  But I kept waiting for Beverly to be revealed to be the Changling actually.  With Ro being a fake-out. 

I saw a bit of speculation on reddit that the Changlings were using the transporters to merge with their target.  The mention of Janeway wasn't for nothing:  because she had experience with Tuvix, perhaps they'll go to her to figure out how to separate the Changling from the solid.

 

It's a wicked idea, I hope that's where they're going with it.

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4 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Hmm.

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ok, latest episode: fantastic to see Ro Laren again.  But I thought we were suppose to see a character reveal on one of the main TNG people as being a Changling.  Because from that article i linked to before they thought of using the Conspiracy bugs but decided against it because there was no way (not precisely true, I think this detail is wrong because they saved an Admiral who had been infected, didn't they?) to undo that, the character would be dead.  So they're using Changlings to be able to pull this off without killing off the character.  Ok, but no reveal and confrontation like that happened, maybe that'll happen in a later episode.  But I kept waiting for Beverly to be revealed to be the Changling actually.  With Ro being a fake-out. 

I saw a bit of speculation on reddit that the Changlings were using the transporters to merge with their target.  The mention of Janeway wasn't for nothing:  because she had experience with Tuvix, perhaps they'll go to her to figure out how to separate the Changling from the solid.

 

It's a wicked idea, I hope that's where they're going with it.

Spoiler

Hmmmm...I thought there was no indication we'd be seeing Janeway on the show...?

Picard's name dropping of Janeway gave me the impression she might be the top person at Starfleet...unless that was said somewhere and I missed it...

 

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4 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:
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Hmmmm...I thought there was no indication we'd be seeing Janeway on the show...?

Picard's name dropping of Janeway gave me the impression she might be the top person at Starfleet...unless that was said somewhere and I missed it...

 

Spoiler

The part I was referring to as a cool idea was the merging with a solid bit, not Janeway's Tuvix experience being key.  I haven't heard anything about Janeway being in it.

 

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58 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:
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The part I was referring to as a cool idea was the merging with a solid bit, not Janeway's Tuvix experience being key.  I haven't heard anything about Janeway being in it.

 

Spoiler

No, I gotcha. I was just trying parse the manner in which her name was dropped. Made it seem like she's the head of Starfleet overall.  It doesn't detract from the Tuvix theory...which would be kinda hilarious to utilize what is generally derided as one of the worst aspects of Voyager in such a manner.

 

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