Star Trek: There! Are! 4! shows!

[DaveSumm]

I feel like this episode massively overplayed Picard and Ro Laren’s relationship. You certainly don’t get the impression during those episodes of TNG that Picard would be stewing on this for 30 years.

I didn’t hate the episode, but I’m still not invested really. ‘They might be a changeling’ has been done, two friends are forced to fight to the death has been done, and drawing out a mystery like whatever’s up with Jack has been done. Sorry NuTrek, you’ve burned me too many times, too many multi-episode drawn out mysteries that amount to nothing interesting. 

Hey remember that thing from the end of Season 2 that we all assumed would be the macguffin for this season? What was that then? Should we expect that to get referenced or have they just completely given up on making this a coherent show?

[Lord Varys]

Am I misremembering things?

Spoiler

Wasn't the good old 'if it bleeds, it ain't a Changeling' thing already put to rest in DS9? Didn't fake Martok play that card?

I mean, how lazy are those writers?

And, indeed, the Ro thing was played up way too much. Especially the notion that she could get back into Starfleet without Picard being told about this.

I must say it feels like these people really want to create the worst possible villains:

Spoiler

How stupid are the Changelings planting the bomb that they give Ro enough time to say her farewells to Picard but also to actually attack their own ship? Also - how firmly in control must the Changelings be for nobody on the Intrepid to raise an eyebrow over the sudden decision to attack the ship most of the new people onboard have been crewing like five minutes ago? If they are that much in control, then there is really no need for pretense or conspiracies. They would effectively run Starfleet and the Federation.

Also, of course, killing Changelings in that silly manner also makes little sense. These beings don't have brains or hearts, they simply fake having them. If you destroy those organs then it shouldn't kill them.

 

[DaveSumm]

@Lord Varys

Spoiler

“Also - how firmly in control must the Changelings be for nobody on the Intrepid to raise an eyebrow over the sudden decision to attack the ship most of the new people onboard have been crewing like five minutes ago? If they are that much in control, then there is really no need for pretense or conspiracies. They would effectively run Starfleet and the Federation.”

And if they’re in control that much, why did they even let her off the ship with a shuttle? So the plot could carry on I guess.

Remember the scene where O’Brien-Changeling approaches Sisko and says “you know how many we have here in Earth? Four. We’ve done all this with just four.” There was four in the episode just for the confrontation with Jack alone. 

 

[RumHam]

32 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Am I misremembering things?

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Wasn't the good old 'if it bleeds, it ain't a Changeling' thing already put to rest in DS9? Didn't fake Martok play that card?

 

 

Spoiler

You are correct, they just hold the blood inside somewhere and leak it when needed. 

I'm glad Ro is alive, I assumed the worst. Now we just need confirmation that Tom Riker somehow wasn't killed when the Marquis were wiped out. 

Wesley has to show up at some point, right? Since he did last season.

I got up to the DS9 episode with mirror-Tuvok last week and realized Voyager must have started by that point. So I started re-watching Voyager as well. It's not as bad as I remember. I really wish both shows would get the HD remaster treatment. I'd even contribute to a kickstarter type thing for that if they thought the cost wasn't justified. 

 

[RumHam]

Spoiler

It was weird bringing up the uniform code thing, I'm pretty sure Ro's earring was the only example of it it ever being enforced. Worf got to keep his little sash, Kayshon on Lower Decks gets his knife. 

Also weird that Picard is shocked to learn Ro is in starfleet again. As if the writers forgot he's supposed to have been living in this world all the while, and isn't just watching the episode with us. He waited 30 years to confront her, but never thought to look into what became of her? 

Shaw continues to be great. 

 

[williamjm]

On 3/16/2023 at 7:40 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

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Holy shit is Michelle Forbes good.  The overall story is still weird but she made that episode.  She and Patrick Stewart made each other so much better.  I would love to watch a series about Ro Laren.

 

Spoiler

It was an entertaining episode despite some stupid moments. The bits with Ro were the highlight, it's a pity we're not going to get more of Forbes and Stewart interacting.

The 'fight to the death' was really dumb, the incongruity of a Vulcan gangster is a fun idea but there was nothing logical about giving weapons to your captives.

Poor Shaw now finds himself in the middle of one of those Picard and Riker stories that he hates so much.

 

[Jaxom 1974]

Spoiler

As Ro was rehabilitated and recruited by Starfleet Intelligence, I find it just fine that Picard might not know she was back. That isn't, and shouldn't be a deal breaker.

And while it wasn't 100% explicit that she was meant to be a Picard protégé during her time on the show, there were instances where he seemed maybe a little concerned, such as when everyone though she and Geordi were killed in the transporter, or when she did actually join the Maquis.  I suspect that some of her relationship with Picard could have been a bigger part of her back story had she actually jumped to DS9 as was the original plan, and they may have been playing a little off of that.

 

[RumHam]

34 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

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As Ro was rehabilitated and recruited by Starfleet Intelligence, I find it just fine that Picard might not know she was back. That isn't, and shouldn't be a deal breaker.

snip

 

Spoiler

I mean it's not a deal breaker. I finished season two, I'm not going to quit the show now that it's actually entertaining and telling a story I'm interested in.

But it's not like she's in Section 31. Admiral Picard presumably could have looked her up any time he wanted. He seemed ignorant of her even turning herself in and being imprisoned. Presumably he would have visited her to deliver the speech he rehearsed all those years if he knew.

I hope you don't take my complaints as coming from a "booo new trek / this show is trash" place, because they're not. I do the same thing with the old shows. Season two of Picard is the only bit of new trek I thought was actually bad and a chore to watch. 

 

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

@Lord Varys

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“Also - how firmly in control must the Changelings be for nobody on the Intrepid to raise an eyebrow over the sudden decision to attack the ship most of the new people onboard have been crewing like five minutes ago? If they are that much in control, then there is really no need for pretense or conspiracies. They would effectively run Starfleet and the Federation.”

And if they’re in control that much, why did they even let her off the ship with a shuttle? So the plot could carry on I guess.

Remember the scene where O’Brien-Changeling approaches Sisko and says “you know how many we have here in Earth? Four. We’ve done all this with just four.” There was four in the episode just for the confrontation with Jack alone. 

 

LOL, yeah. The line of fake O'Brien there was really great. One really gets the impression that the writers of DS9 actually did things through, at least occasionally. I mean, it isn't that hard. There is an entire show there about Odo. And there is a wiki that's pretty good. So use it, you lazy people, when you actually bother bringing characters and creatures back.

There was no need for the regeneration shit nor the blood test shit nor the silly 'we scan people upon entry' shit (that they never actually did during the Dominion War - there they had low level phaser scans which revealed Changelings). That they are not referenced now shows the shitty writing yet again.

What does actually suck at the end of DS9 is the silly notion that Section 31 can cook up a lethal anti-Changeling virus the Changelings themselves cannot find a cure for. They are master geneticists, created lethal plagues themselves as well as creating and shaping various species to fit to their needs. Most especially they also capable of messing around with and changing their own genetic makeup (as their decision to trap Odo in a solid body shows). The idea that they would not be able to find a cure to this virus is just not very likely.

I know why they introduced that plot, but it would have been much more believable if it had only been affecting the Founders stuck in the Alpha Quadrant - the Female Changeling could have just feared they were all dying while not knowing that the Great Link back home had already created a cure.

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

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I mean it's not a deal breaker. I finished season two, I'm not going to quit the show now that it's actually entertaining and telling a story I'm interested in.

But it's not like she's in Section 31. Admiral Picard presumably could have looked her up any time he wanted. He seemed ignorant of her even turning herself in and being imprisoned. Presumably he would have visited her to deliver the speech he rehearsed all those years if he knew.

I hope you don't take my complaints as coming from a "booo new trek / this show is trash" place, because they're not. I do the same thing with the old shows. Season two of Picard is the only bit of new trek I thought was actually bad and a chore to watch. 

Definitely agree with the take that this is odd. Just as it is odd that Picard didn't talk to Beverly for over 20 years. The guy is a very important figure and well-connected, so the chance that nobody told him about this - or nobody asked him for his opinion whether she should be allowed back in - feels pretty odd.

I must also say that it feels really odd to have the Dominion kind of back ... but aside from Worf no actual DS9 guys are back in the game.

[Aemon Stark]

I get the feeling that Picard is generally too self-involved and focused on assorted personal projects and ideas. He's not someone that seems to maintain friendships particularly well - certainly he didn't seem to with his own family! The time gaps are weird, but I was so thoroughly surprised to see Ro again that I went with it. Michelle Forbes is awesome... got a bit of Admiral Cain in her initial scenes too. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

34 minutes ago, Aemon Stark said:

I get the feeling that Picard is generally too self-involved and focused on assorted personal projects and ideas. He's not someone that seems to maintain friendships particularly well - certainly he didn't seem to with his own family! The time gaps are weird, but I was so thoroughly surprised to see Ro again that I went with it. Michelle Forbes is awesome... got a bit of Admiral Cain in her initial scenes too. 

Michelle Forbes oozes gravitas and “don’t fuck with me”.  She makes Patrick Stewart a better actor.  She’s just that good.

[sifth]

Another great episode, that finally gave us some closure, to what happened in the second to last episode of TNG. Alright, now this is a show made by Trek fans, for Trek fans. You know it's the little things that make me love season 3 of this show, when compared to Discovery and the first two seasons of Picard;

Spoiler

like when they're dissecting the changling and have a line about, how changlings are suppose to revert to their liquid form, when they die. I was instantly thinking, "alright you, I see you did your homework, very good". 

 

[sifth]

16 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I feel like this episode massively overplayed Picard and Ro Laren’s relationship. You certainly don’t get the impression during those episodes of TNG that Picard would be stewing on this for 30 years.

 

I mean go back and rewatch Ro's scene from the TNG episode The Next Phase, where she believes herself a ghost. She has this really touching scene, where she thanks Picard for always believing in her, even when no one else did.