Star Trek: There! Are! 4! shows!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Also, of course, a very cheap plot device to have some asshole superior officer. The evil/incompetent admirals of the earlier shows were also pretty cheap.

I rather liked Lower Decks explanation for all the “Evil Admirals”. 

[Lord Varys]

Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I rather liked Lower Decks explanation for all the “Evil Admirals”. 

Was that in the last season? Haven't finished that one so far.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Was that in the last season? Haven't finished that one so far.

Yes, end of S3.  And I have to say I think the supped up Packleds are among my favorite Trek villians ever.  

[Werthead]

Whilst "the kid" might not look 35 (the actor's actual age), he sure as hell looks older than 23 (the elapsed time between Nemesis and S3 of Picard in-universe). So whilst he might not have been conceived in the Season 2 TNG window, he also can't have been conceived post-Nemesis. Maybe during the canonical ~10 years the TNG crew were together on the Enterprise-E, but after is a hard sell.

Of course, if he is a force-grown clone or some other gubbins, all bets are off.

[Maltaran]

On 2/16/2023 at 7:38 PM, SpaceChampion said:

Did no one tell Picard that if you go to Z'ha'dum, you will die??

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I'm misdirecting here.  But that ship at the end is quite Shadow-vessel like.

 

Glad I’m not the only person who thought that

[Werthead]

Interesting thought. If "Frontier Day" is supposed to be the 250th anniversary of the founding of the Federation, that puts Season 3 in 2411, almost ten years after the events of Seasons 1 and 2 and 33 years after the events of Nemesis. That would allow the age of the actor playing Crusher Jnr. to match up better.

However, I don't get even the vaguest suggestion that it is supposed to be 10 years after Season 2 (putting Picard well into his 100s), more like a couple of years at best.

[Denvek]

If the Federation considers itself a continuation of the Coalition of Planets that was founded at the end of Enterprise, the 250th anniversary of that event would be 2405, which would fit the timeline better.

[Jaxom 1974]

Spoiler

Without to many mental gymnastics...if it isn't more than 23-25 years since the end of Nemesis, and Crusher's new son is what...roughly 30ish...that still means he had to be conceived while she was on the E. So either it's timeliness or Clone shenanigans. Or their hand waving. Or the actor is playing considerably younger.

And who else could be the father?

 

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

Interesting thought. If "Frontier Day" is supposed to be the 250th anniversary of the founding of the Federation, that puts Season 3 in 2411, almost ten years after the events of Seasons 1 and 2 and 33 years after the events of Nemesis. That would allow the age of the actor playing Crusher Jnr. to match up better.

However, I don't get even the vaguest suggestion that it is supposed to be 10 years after Season 2 (putting Picard well into his 100s), more like a couple of years at best.

A lot of stuff seems to have happened, though. Seven didn't just rejoin Starfleet, she is a Commander now, serving under a captain who would likely rather cut off his arm than actually promote her. Things between Will and Deanna and their daughter have gone bad, apparently, and Will no longer lives on a planet in the middle of nowhere.

There was also a jump ahead of two years between season 1 (2399) and season 2 (2401). Another ten years would be a lot, but not necessarily too much. Picard apparently is starting to approach senility, forgetting rather crucial things about Deep Space Stations, while Will also strikes me as much older than in season 1 where he ended up commanding a spaceship.

In any case, though, Beverly not speaking with Jean-Luc for about 20+ years rather than about thirty would imply that if the son is 30ish like the actor he must have been *right there* when they last spoke, so Picard should know he has a son. Which would be odd as hell in context of everything that happened in the meantime.

If I had to tackle how and when they tried to be lovers I'd assume after Nemesis - the loss of Data as well as the fucked-up Shinzon thing would have put Picard in a very bad place, so they may have tried it then - and perhaps it also kind of didn't work out because Picard hadn't yet worked through the Nemesis issues.

13 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

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Without to many mental gymnastics...if it isn't more than 23-25 years since the end of Nemesis, and Crusher's new son is what...roughly 30ish...that still means he had to be conceived while she was on the E. So either it's timeliness or Clone shenanigans. Or their hand waving. Or the actor is playing considerably younger.

And who else could be the father?

 

Don't think anybody else could be the dad. I mean, the question we have to ask is why the hell Beverly has another son at all? She already had one in Wesley, and she is pretty old now. So what's the point of such a plot in a show called 'Star Trek: Picard'? The answer should be pretty simple.

And it would actually be worse if they just teased at this and then decided to make the son some random guy's offspring. But we can only hope they tackle this thing much differently than Kirk's son from the movies.

[Jaxom 1974]

I can't see any issues with Kirk's son, other than how he ended up...

 

And if this new son does belong to Picard...reading tea leaves from the Twitter feed of Gates McFadden...I'm guessing some sort of medical shenanigans. I mean, it is the future, but even the character of Beverly Crusher should be mid 70s now...

 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

29 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I can't see any issues with Kirk's son, other than how he ended up...

 

And if this new son does belong to Picard...reading tea leaves from the Twitter feed of Gates McFadden...I'm guessing some sort of medical shenanigans. I mean, it is the future, but even the character of Beverly Crusher should be mid 70s now...

 

 

Gates McFadden is still lovely.

[Jaxom 1974]

40 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Gates McFadden is still lovely.

Not actually something I question...

[Werthead]

Gates McFadden kicked ass. 73 and looking pretty good for it (clearly some work done, but why not). Of all the TNG characters she was probably done the dirtiest in terms of good storylines and good character moments, and she did have some of her worst moments become memes (ghostfucker, "there's something wrong with the universe!"), so it's good to see her come back in in a bigger role.

Amusing appearance by Dorn, Frakes, P-Stew and McFadden on The View. Dorn gets a special award for having more appearances on Trek than any other main actor (or actor full stop, I believe).

[Lord Varys]

41 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I can't see any issues with Kirk's son, other than how he ended up...

That, and the fact that they never actually talked with each other.

41 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

And if this new son does belong to Picard...reading tea leaves from the Twitter feed of Gates McFadden...I'm guessing some sort of medical shenanigans. I mean, it is the future, but even the character of Beverly Crusher should be mid 70s now...

According the wiki she is born in 2324, so she would be approaching ninety in 2511. But if her son was really 30-ish, he would be born in her late 50s or so. Tough but could even work today, especially with medical shenanigans.

The wiki also sets season 3 in the year 2511, so they might have gone with such a jump ahead.

Any idea about the lingering threat from season 2? I thought they would continue with that ... but is this then something for another post-Picard show, possibly featuring Seven and other people from Picard taking place between season 2 and 3? Before asshead took over the Titan? In light of Prodigy and Lower Decks it might also make sense to perhaps bring back some folks from Voyager or DS9 in such a show.

Or would they continue after season 3 with the 'next generation' folks they intend to introduce here?

[Werthead]

The producers have clarified that Season 3 takes place in 2402 (not 25xx, that would be a hundred years later), and Frontier Day marks the anniversary of the NX-01 Enterprise exploring unknown space, "crossing the frontier."

So the timeline looks like this:

• 2363: Launch of the Enterprise-D.
• 2364: First contact with the "blue gill" parasite aliens.
• 2365: Events of Season 2 of TNG, Crusher takes a year's sabbatical at Starfleet Medical, first contact with the Borg.
• Very early 2367: Battle of Wolf 359.
• 2371: Destruction of Enterprise-D. USS Voyager lost in the Badlands.
• 2372: Launch of the Enterprise-E.
• 2373: Battle of Sector 001.
• 2373-75: Dominion War.
• 2378: USS Voyager returns to Earth.
• 2379: Battle between the Enterprise-E and Scimitar. Captain Riker takes command of the USS Titan. Death of Data.
• 2380: Ensign Boimler joins the USS Cerritos.
• 2383: Retrieval of the USS Protostar from the Tars Lamora prison colony.
• 2384: Battle of the Living Construct. USS Voyager-A in service by this year.
• 2385: Rogue synthetic attack on Mars. Synth ban instigated. Enterprise-E retired.
• 2386: Odyssey-class Enterprise-F enters service.
• 2387: Destruction of Romulus by hypernova. Disappearance of Ambassador Spock.
• 2398: USS Titan retired from service.
• 2399: Defence of Coppelius, synth ban lifted.
• 2401: Borg-Federation alliance.
• 2402: Launch of the USS Titan-A and USS Voyager-B. Planned decommissioning of the Enterprise-F.

[Werthead]

The new crossover we all want:

 

[RumHam]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

 

• 2385: Rogue synthetic attack on Mars. Synth ban instigated. 
• 2387: Destruction of Romulus by hypernova. Disappearance of Ambassador Spock

Huh, I thought those were flipped. Why did I think the synths were building the ships to rescue Romulans when they freaked out and killed everyone?

[sifth]

19 hours ago, Werthead said:

Interesting thought. If "Frontier Day" is supposed to be the 250th anniversary of the founding of the Federation, that puts Season 3 in 2411, almost ten years after the events of Seasons 1 and 2 and 33 years after the events of Nemesis. That would allow the age of the actor playing Crusher Jnr. to match up better.

However, I don't get even the vaguest suggestion that it is supposed to be 10 years after Season 2 (putting Picard well into his 100s), more like a couple of years at best.

I mean the average life spans for humans in this era of Trek is around 150, so it makes sense.

[Jaxom 1974]

That anything JJ Abraham's put forth in his movies is in any way actually considered Canon is just horrible...

[Werthead]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

Huh, I thought those were flipped. Why did I think the synths were building the ships to rescue Romulans when they freaked out and killed everyone?

They were. There was several years' warning of the hypernova (there had to be otherwise there'd have been time to build absolutely nothing), during which time there was hand-wringing and then the building of the fleet, then the synths flipped. Starfleet abandoned the project and a year and a bit to two and bit years later the hypernova destroyed Romulus.

Given that the hypernova atomised Romulus completely, and they knew it was going to do that, there was no chance of rescuing anyone afterwards. They were all reduced to free-floating atoms.

2 hours ago, sifth said:

I mean the average life spans for humans in this era of Trek is around 150, so it makes sense.

I do not recall that being stated anywhere (someone has put it on the wiki, but's unsourced). Dr. McCoy reached at least 137, which was indicated to be exceptionally old (at least he thought so, and as a doctor he should know). Enterprise suggests that 100 is the new average in the 22nd Century, but it does not state the new maximum total range. The Lorelai Signal states that Kirk and McCoy could expect to live into their 90s, barring accidents and even without access to Starfleet resources.

Beta canon suggests that Archer made it to 132 (dying one day after the launch of the Enterprise NCC-1701 in 2244), but that is not backed up in primary canon anywhere.

OTOH, Admiral Mark Jameson in TNG's Too Short a Season is shown as old and decrepit at 85, although this was exacerbated by Iverson's Disease.

Augments like Khan are said to have twice the lifespan of the average human (Enterprise: Borderland). And weirdly you just have the random human who's immortal for no apparent reason (Warhammer 40K style), like Flint (TOS: Requiem for Methuselah).

Picard seems to be suggesting that 100 is the new 80 and 70 is the new 50, which seems reasonable enough, which would indicate that the maximum lifespan is still near McCoy's range. Although, of course, McCoy's death has never actually been mentioned anywhere in canon either, so he could still be trucking along offscreen (he'd now be 175).

Having ages that are much higher than the modern average is a nice idea except it does trip them up a lot (Worf should not be looking massively older than he was the last time we saw him, as at 62 he's only 25-30% of his way through his Klingon lifespan, but clearly has aged substantially).